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The construction of the mafioso social capital and the Sack of Palermo (2023)

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Re: The construction of the mafioso social capital and the Sack of Palermo (2023)

#51

Post by psunavy03 »

lelanthran wrote: post #8
toyg wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Mafia always enjoyed some support among people who benefit from it, which is why they make this sort of populist move in the first place. That doesn't mean they are as legitimate as a proper democratic government. It's like saying "oh, the local feudal Lord helps us fight bandits!" - yeah, but he can also cut you down in the street without due process, doesn't care about your opinion, and might enforce ius primae…

> It's like saying "oh, the local feudal Lord helps us fight bandits!" It's not exactly the same, because > - yeah, but he can also cut you down in the street without due process, doesn't care about your opinion, and might enforce ius primae noctis, without any recourse. If the mafioso goes too far they lose the support of the locals. I mean, sure, the population has no recourse when some henchman rapes some bride, b…

> ius primae noctis

This wasn't actually a thing.

Re: The construction of the mafioso social capital and the Sack of Palermo (2023)

#52

Post by psunavy03 »

mannykannot wrote: post #37
beAbU wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No snark intended below: I'm genuinely curious what the difference is according to you. From where I'm standing I sometimes struggle to see the difference between my government and a mafia. They behave in uncanny similar ways.

At the scale seen in Palermo (though not only Palermo, by any means) it is effectively a government (and this point is an element of the article), but without a constitution (unless you count "submit to violence" as one) and sustained economically by extortion, corruption, and drug- and human-trafficking. Lest this seems smug, let me say that, with SCOTUS struggling to find anything wrong in the events of January 6 2…

> with SCOTUS struggling to find anything wrong in the events of January 6 2021

Might want to work on your reading comprehension there.

Re: The construction of the mafioso social capital and the Sack of Palermo (2023)

#53

Post by dfxm12 »

Simon_ORourke wrote: post #2

Both in Palermo and in Naples, the business activities of the mafia can be categorized as extremely short-sighted profit squeezing, which I suppose is all you might expect from organizations operating mostly outside the law but with a firm grip on their respective societies (a bit like Google/Meta/Tesla I suppose).

Part of it is that the shelf life of a mob boss is not expected to be very long. You've got to get what you can, while you can.

Re: The construction of the mafioso social capital and the Sack of Palermo (2023)

#54

Post by AngaraliTurk »

HPsquared wrote: post #42
sparrowInHand wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unpopular but, the south of italy is a middle eastern country, in all metrics.

More like Greece, I think.

I've heard and read Greece being compared to the Middle East as well, more than one time.

Re: The construction of the mafioso social capital and the Sack of Palermo (2023)

#55

Post by imperfect_light »

lelanthran wrote: post #14
xandrius wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you actually trying to argue in support of the mafia?

> Are you actually trying to argue in support of the mafia? No, I'm saying that it's not exactly the same as fuedal overloads are. Organised crime are a business, first and foremost, and like all businesses (whether legal or not) focuses on profit.

This is the libertarian argument that since businesses try to maximize profits, they would not do things like discriminate, pollute or defraud because in the long-term it would hurt profits.

The reality is businesses (including organized crime) are made up of individuals, who do illogical and short-sighted things all the time.

Re: The construction of the mafioso social capital and the Sack of Palermo (2023)

#56

Post by pmontra »

HPsquared wrote: post #42
sparrowInHand wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unpopular but, the south of italy is a middle eastern country, in all metrics.

More like Greece, I think.

Most of it used to be Greek colonies before Roman expansion, so yes.

Re: The construction of the mafioso social capital and the Sack of Palermo (2023)

#57

Post by deputy »

Simon_ORourke wrote: post #2

Both in Palermo and in Naples, the business activities of the mafia can be categorized as extremely short-sighted profit squeezing, which I suppose is all you might expect from organizations operating mostly outside the law but with a firm grip on their respective societies (a bit like Google/Meta/Tesla I suppose).

[deleted]

Re: The construction of the mafioso social capital and the Sack of Palermo (2023)

#58

Post by AlbertCory »

A different take from a non-Italian. I'm curious what actual Italians think of this:

I'm reading a book on how Spain gained and lost a world empire (I'd had it on my shelf forever and never read it):

https://www.amazon.com/Empire-Spain-Became-World-1492-1763/d...

It said that many northern Italians believe that a big reason the Mafia is so dominant in southern Italy and Sicily is that it was ruled (loosely) by Spain a long time ago. True?

Re: The construction of the mafioso social capital and the Sack of Palermo (2023)

#59

Post by mistrial9 »

infecto wrote: post #38
mamonster wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's like saying "oh, the local feudal Lord helps us fight bandits!" Well, the whole point of the Mafia is that it's a sort of reactionary movement to defeudalisation/uniformisation in places that are far away from where the power centralizes (the exact same reason why Yakuza started after the unification and why a lot of gangsters are from Kyushu). It also pisses me off that people use the word mafia inappropriatel…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_mafia Should we update wikipedia?

[deleted]

Re: The construction of the mafioso social capital and the Sack of Palermo (2023)

#60

Post by _3u10 »

xandrius wrote: post #9
lelanthran wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's like saying "oh, the local feudal Lord helps us fight bandits!" It's not exactly the same, because > - yeah, but he can also cut you down in the street without due process, doesn't care about your opinion, and might enforce ius primae noctis, without any recourse. If the mafioso goes too far they lose the support of the locals. I mean, sure, the population has no recourse when some henchman rapes some bride, b…

Are you actually trying to argue in support of the mafia?

Who takes more of your money to provide protection from not paying your tax? Mafia or government?
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