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Lions OS: secure – fast – adaptable

trustworthy.systems

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Re: Lions OS: secure – fast – adaptable

#51

Post by pvg »

seti0Cha wrote: post #48
jermaustin1 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are speculating, but there is no telling if it ever even happened. I tend to believe the site's news was just more interesting than what OOP posted.

That's Paul Graham's account, so maybe not just speculation. I didn't realize he still read this site. Not to jump on to OPs paranoia but I kind of thought he was frequenting some secret meta-HN site that still talks about entrepreneurship. Paul, if you see this, let me in! I swear I won't complain about capitalism!

It's my account, not Paul Graham's.

Re: Lions OS: secure – fast – adaptable

#52

Post by seti0Cha »

pvg wrote: post #51
seti0Cha wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's Paul Graham's account, so maybe not just speculation. I didn't realize he still read this site. Not to jump on to OPs paranoia but I kind of thought he was frequenting some secret meta-HN site that still talks about entrepreneurship. Paul, if you see this, let me in! I swear I won't complain about capitalism!

It's my account, not Paul Graham's.

It appears my memory has failed me yet again. Sorry about that, pvg!

Re: Lions OS: secure – fast – adaptable

#53

Post by snvzz »

amluto wrote: post #41
mikewarot wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been waiting for a system like this for over a decade to use as my daily driver. An OS that runs with a capability model like this is immune to whole classes of security exploits that guarantee Linux, Windows, MacOS, etc. will never be secure. I was hoping Genode would get there sooner, and GNU Hurd should have gotten there years ago. Capabilities are the computing version of circuit breakers. They make it possi…

FWIW, I would not trust seL4 on x86. Last time I checked, seL4’s interaction with the x86 architecture was not formally verified and looked quite buggy. Even a microkernel has three things that form part of the TCB: the part that interfaces with the even-lower-level stuff (interrupt and exception handlers, paging, memory model, etc), the interface it provides to its clients (syscalls and whatever it provides via sysc…

>FWIW, I would not trust seL4 on x86.

I would not trust any system on x86.

>AIUI, the situation on ARM is likely better.

Somewhat, but still not good.

RISC-V is where it's at, when it comes to seL4.

(seL4 participates in RISC-V)

Re: Lions OS: secure – fast – adaptable

#54

Post by aprilnya »

pvg wrote: post #50
aprilnya wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s what I inferred from your comment

Nothing like your inference was in my comment, beside the seemingly obvious fact nobody would use such a 'spam detector'. But either way, you can trivially verify this yourself just by looking at /newest.

> the account was brand new when they were posted so they were probably killed by the spam detector

Re: Lions OS: secure – fast – adaptable

#55

Post by snvzz »

devit wrote: post #15
knighthack wrote: post #6

Question: under what circumstances would I ever want to use this OS, over Linux or MacOS or Windows?

All circumstances where correctness and security are more important than maximum possible performance, once it's mature enough (which will probably never happen), since it provides a proper and secure architecture.

seL4 is not doing badly in the performance side. It is even seen beating Linux in the slides.

Re: Lions OS: secure – fast – adaptable

#56

Post by pvg »

aprilnya wrote: post #54
pvg wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing like your inference was in my comment, beside the seemingly obvious fact nobody would use such a 'spam detector'. But either way, you can trivially verify this yourself just by looking at /newest.

> the account was brand new when they were posted so they were probably killed by the spam detector

Right, that's what I wrote. It doesn't say 'all posts by new users are killed without review'. Like, why would anyone do that? How would the site work?

Re: Lions OS: secure – fast – adaptable

#58

Post by dmm »

progbits wrote: post #8
mikewarot wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been waiting for a system like this for over a decade to use as my daily driver. An OS that runs with a capability model like this is immune to whole classes of security exploits that guarantee Linux, Windows, MacOS, etc. will never be secure. I was hoping Genode would get there sooner, and GNU Hurd should have gotten there years ago. Capabilities are the computing version of circuit breakers. They make it possi…

Do you know if there is anything like that which can run OCI containers/lightweight VMs? I would love that as daily driver too for the same reasons, but realistically will have to run various Linux apps to be productive, so those could go into shortlived isolated sandboxes ala distrobox.

Have tried Qubes? It provides security through isolated VMs. https://qubes-os.org

Re: Lions OS: secure – fast – adaptable

#59

Post by snvzz »

dmm wrote: post #58
progbits wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know if there is anything like that which can run OCI containers/lightweight VMs? I would love that as daily driver too for the same reasons, but realistically will have to run various Linux apps to be productive, so those could go into shortlived isolated sandboxes ala distrobox.

Have tried Qubes? It provides security through isolated VMs. https://qubes-os.org

For some definition of isolated.

A replacement with a more serious architecture based on seL4 is in the works[0].

0. https://trustworthy.systems/projects/makatea/

Re: Lions OS: secure – fast – adaptable

#60

Post by mikewarot »

sillywalk wrote: post #46
mikewarot wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been waiting for a system like this for over a decade to use as my daily driver. An OS that runs with a capability model like this is immune to whole classes of security exploits that guarantee Linux, Windows, MacOS, etc. will never be secure. I was hoping Genode would get there sooner, and GNU Hurd should have gotten there years ago. Capabilities are the computing version of circuit breakers. They make it possi…

Have you tried Genode's Sculpt OS? "Sculpt is an open-source general-purpose OS. It combines Genode's microkernel architecture, capability-based security, sandboxed device drivers, and virtual machines in a novel operating system for commodity PC hardware and the PinePhone. Sculpt is used as day-to-day OS by the Genode developers." https://genode.org/download/sculpt

I tried it a while ago, it seemed like there wasn't enough there, there. I couldn't find the "Hello World" example that made sense to me. I get the idea of composing resources, but until I've got a file system and compiler running, and a command line I can do something with, it doesn't help. 8(

I'm hoping that Sculpt 24.04 does the job for me. If I can make sense of it enough to get Free Pascal running on it, or even just a C compiler, and "Hello, World" in a CLI, we're off to the races.

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