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The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

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Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#51
post #7

I began as a junior dev and climbed up the ranks til the point where I became the SME in some areas of the product. Got laid off because sales goals were not met while they retained people which I think were incompetent in their work. Even some guys which I think were better and more critical to the projects were dumped. I'm not climbing that ladder by being proactive and "pragmatic" again... Call me a paycheck steal…

If it so happens that that company was wrong in what they did, you run the risk of optimizing for the wrong things based on one bad observation. The company doesn’t care. The negatives only affect your career.

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#52
This puts the cart before the horse. In reality, the biggest source of untapped potential, at least anecdotally as an engineer, is that corporations tend to give grease to squeaky wheels. So, the upper quadrants in the article.

If you have even a few years of industry experience, modulo being intentionally naive, you've noticed that work begets work. The 'skilled pragmatists' quietly do their jobs well. Their reward is even more work to do, without much recognition.

It's analogous to software quality. It's fleetingly rare that a consumer of software writes in to let you know how great, zippy and bug-free it is. You only ever hear about how terrible things are. When things are 'good' -- that's just the expected status quo. So no reward for steadily doing good things.

I'm also sure after a few years in industry you've also noticed that the Do-Nothing (TM) guy who sprints around with their head on fire gets managerial recognition, promotions, bonuses.

You know the kind. They wander from meeting to meeting, initiative to initiative, never actually accomplishing anything concrete, but showing their face to management and saying a lot of nice words.

Eventually, the skilled pragmatist notices this dichotomy and mentally clocks out. I've heard this anecdote many times, both in online circles and IRL.

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#53
post #37
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll be you ten bucks they got rid of people who bring up bad news and kept the yes-men. A company that doesn’t know what’s broken is doomed to mediocrity. But some people want to play music while the ship sinks. So they arrange for the most pleasant rest of the voyage they can, instead of saving as many people as they can.

> I’ll be you ten bucks they got rid of people who bring up bad news and kept the yes-men I’m pretty cynical and assumed this was how layoffs worked but at least in faang and even smaller (maybe 500 people) SV companies, I actually don’t think this is the case anymore. Most I’ve seen have been extremely random – it seems like they cut teams/orgs very differently but on an individual level it seems random. I got the i…

That’s how salesforce did it. One way you can tell how terribly uninformed the layoff choices were is that there were people who were actually rehired immediately.

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#54
post #16

I don’t think I can agree that 75% of the workforce falls into one quadrant. Particularly this one. If I’m very lucky the semi space contains 60% of my coworkers, if I’m unlucky (or arrive after the writing is on the wall) it’s more like 1/3. I suspect part of the confusion is that there are some people with enough political acumen to appear like frustrated agents of change without actually having the drive or skill…

Even that's a very high estimate. Maybe there are 8 million bonafide geniuses on Earth, and maybe 80 million very smart people, at max. And being very generous to the US, maybe a tenth of them are full time residents somewhere in the 50 states plus DC. Claims that a meaningfully large portion of them are being 'wasted', are hard to believe since there aren't that many to begin with.

To be clear, I feel the author is describing me, and the loneliness and alienation I have felt too often at work tells me he’s using a lot of hyperbole.

If we form a lunch group to complain about our frustrations, it’s never been more than about four people, even in a team of dozens or more. Three is more common.

That said, he may be telling the truth with lies - this sort of untapped resource can have outsized impacts on a business, for good or ill.

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Many of us are working hard, trying to get real work done. And spending 20-40 mins a day checking Hacker News :) Seriously though, don’t you feel bad by not pulling your weight? Someone has to get your work done.

> Someone has to get your work done. That's often the problem, in that it doesn't truly matter if the work got done

There's a ton of "fake work" in corporate america. This is basically busy work that isn't used by any real customer, external or internal. That work doesn't need to be done, but shows up because someone committed to it for political reasons (or because they were clueless.) Someone needs a box checked, but didn't check if the box needed to be there in the first place.

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#56
post #7

I began as a junior dev and climbed up the ranks til the point where I became the SME in some areas of the product. Got laid off because sales goals were not met while they retained people which I think were incompetent in their work. Even some guys which I think were better and more critical to the projects were dumped. I'm not climbing that ladder by being proactive and "pragmatic" again... Call me a paycheck steal…

Did you get cut cause "we need a number" and you're expensive? Were you the growth guy when they need run the busies blood and guts people? Did they save 2 people in some other department who matter more with some horse trading? You can go and be a clock puncher. It's perfectly fine to do so. I know plenty of them, some got laid off recently and cant seem to find jobs. The high achiever's the go the extra mile types…

It's all well and good to include a disclaimer about downvotes. But, it is somewhat irrelevant, as the reason you are most likely to be downvoted is not because you are touching on a sensitive subject. They are downvoting you because your argument makes it very clear you actually haven't read the article.

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#58
post #17
post #7

I began as a junior dev and climbed up the ranks til the point where I became the SME in some areas of the product. Got laid off because sales goals were not met while they retained people which I think were incompetent in their work. Even some guys which I think were better and more critical to the projects were dumped. I'm not climbing that ladder by being proactive and "pragmatic" again... Call me a paycheck steal…

> Just give me some JIRA ticket and let me read books while I get my job done in 1-2 hours a day. Aren't we all (normal and decent people) doing this already?

Ignoring the amount of time spend working for a moment. I would be miserable if all I got to do during that time was work on Jira tickets others created.

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#59
post #25
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To assume all organizations reward or value expertise the same way is to cap your maximum lifetime earnings, methinks.

I'm in this trap right now a little bit. After a particularly egregious instance of feeling passed over for a promo, how can I trust that the next jerkoff won't do the same thing?

it's tough, but you should put some explicit thought in to what you expect, and what it's worth to you. You'll probably have to "give some of it away for free" to prove you've got something of value; the hard part is deciding when you've given enough and can leave or deliver an ultimatum. Define something you really want to do that demonstrates your value. Tell your boss explicitly what you want and how you're going to earn it. Do the thing. Ideally you'll get the reward but if not ask. Follow through on your convictions.

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#60
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ll be you ten bucks they got rid of people who bring up bad news and kept the yes-men I’m pretty cynical and assumed this was how layoffs worked but at least in faang and even smaller (maybe 500 people) SV companies, I actually don’t think this is the case anymore. Most I’ve seen have been extremely random – it seems like they cut teams/orgs very differently but on an individual level it seems random. I got the i…

That’s how salesforce did it. One way you can tell how terribly uninformed the layoff choices were is that there were people who were actually rehired immediately.

I charge 3x my hourly rate and a two hour minimum to talk to anyone who laid me off.

If I worked somewhere that I loved that much that I’d even entertain the idea of coming back, I’d probably be too gutted to talk to them about it.

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