Half of Ireland's young people have low level of mental wellbeing • Hacker News Board

Re: Half of Ireland's young people have low level of mental wellbeing

#51

Post by negamax » Tue, Apr 16, 2024, 4:49 PM UTC

circlefavshape wrote: post #26

negamax wrote: post #8

Ireland should be an international study about how a state destroyed itself by running a gigantic welfare state despite all of world's money pouring into it Almost €300B national debt. Government is giving free houses, money to people who don't work. It's the only relatively wealthy European country with unlimited dole. And people make a lifestyle out of living on welfare forever. This is despite huge corporation tax…

How has the state destroyed itself? Most of the debt is from the bank bailouts during the 2008 financial crisis (debt quadrupled between 2007 and 2013) > Government is giving free houses, money to people who don't work [...] and people make a lifestyle out of living on welfare forever This is just the usual blah blah moaning about welfare states in general. What do you mean by "unlimited dole"?

Unlimited weekly money of €250 for people who don't work. This isn't a small amount. Specially on top of free housing by schemes like HAP. That can give as much as €2000/month in rent

End result is a destroyed housing market and young people who rather get trapped into welfare

Re: Half of Ireland's young people have low level of mental wellbeing

#52

Post by rsynnott » Tue, Apr 16, 2024, 4:49 PM UTC

negamax wrote: post #33

rsynnott wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All of that money was thrown into the welfare pit. Largely bailing out the banks, actually. Debt fell to practically nothing prior to the financial crisis, then leapt up, and has been kinda flat ever since. So, I mean, arguably welfare for the rich? We were arguably over-generous with the banks. > What does Ireland has to show for such a large government employees. Health service is in tatters, so is housing. Again…

Please visit https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/ Welfare dependency in Ireland is of another level. 4% figure is cooked by engaging people into government skill programs

So, the biggest items under social protection:

* Pension (10.69bn) - Can't touch this

* Illness, disability, and carers (5.6bn) - This is also largely old people; a lot of it should arguably come out of the health budget

* Working age income supports (4.11bn) - This is programmes for low-income working people.

Way down the bottom: "Working age employment supports", at 655mn. That's the dole. It is comparatively nothing.

Again, what specific changes do you think should be made? How would they be beneficial?

Re: Half of Ireland's young people have low level of mental wellbeing

#53

Post by superb_dev » Tue, Apr 16, 2024, 4:50 PM UTC

anotherhue wrote: post #43

negamax wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about? Ireland's population is mere 5M. That's €60K debt for each soul. And over €200K debt for a family. What does Ireland has to show for all this debt?

Emigrants.

Huh?

Re: Half of Ireland's young people have low level of mental wellbeing

#54

Post by WhereIsTheTruth » Tue, Apr 16, 2024, 4:50 PM UTC

negamax wrote: post #8

Ireland should be an international study about how a state destroyed itself by running a gigantic welfare state despite all of world's money pouring into it Almost €300B national debt. Government is giving free houses, money to people who don't work. It's the only relatively wealthy European country with unlimited dole. And people make a lifestyle out of living on welfare forever. This is despite huge corporation tax…

Being a welfare state is not the problem, that's the duty of the government, and should be an example for many countries

However, it's a tax heaven within Europe, therefore companies are not incentivized to create jobs, that's the problem

When you have nothing to do and nothing in your life to aspire to, you become sad

Re: Half of Ireland's young people have low level of mental wellbeing

#55

Post by KoolKat23 » Tue, Apr 16, 2024, 4:50 PM UTC

negamax wrote: post #8

Ireland should be an international study about how a state destroyed itself by running a gigantic welfare state despite all of world's money pouring into it Almost €300B national debt. Government is giving free houses, money to people who don't work. It's the only relatively wealthy European country with unlimited dole. And people make a lifestyle out of living on welfare forever. This is despite huge corporation tax…

Your framing is all wrong and certain points are incorrect too.

Clearly it's not a waste when at a GDP per capita level the country is in the top 5 in the world (and certainly the one with the largest population). Even if you want to strip out the tax aspect, the country has managed to improve living standards and now it ranks above average in living standards and earnings in Europe.

Debt means nothing when the population have the earning capacity to pay it off (people don't give loans they don't expect you can pay back). This is clearly being invested well and in productive capital.

It is definitely not unlimited dole. The social housing component ensures sufficient social mobility, so you actually can improve your own position in life. The country also has the most progressive tax system in Europe i.e. people pay their fare share (relatively speaking to other countries).

I will make a point on an assumption you infer, and no you are wrong, trickle down economics does not work. And secondly, there is value in investing in your residents.

Re: Half of Ireland's young people have low level of mental wellbeing

#56

Post by all2 » Tue, Apr 16, 2024, 4:51 PM UTC

superb_dev wrote: post #49

negamax wrote: post #8

Ireland should be an international study about how a state destroyed itself by running a gigantic welfare state despite all of world's money pouring into it Almost €300B national debt. Government is giving free houses, money to people who don't work. It's the only relatively wealthy European country with unlimited dole. And people make a lifestyle out of living on welfare forever. This is despite huge corporation tax…

Why don’t people deserve free housing? We need it to fucking live, it’s essential

Someone has to pay for the housing. It isn't free, the expense just gets shifted to someone else.

Re: Half of Ireland's young people have low level of mental wellbeing

#57

Post by throwaway55671 » Tue, Apr 16, 2024, 4:52 PM UTC

basisword wrote: post #39

negamax wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about? Ireland's population is mere 5M. That's €60K debt for each soul. And over €200K debt for a family. What does Ireland has to show for all this debt?

So about half of the debt per capita of the US?

Per capita is a dumb indicator for this, though. USA has GDP in tens of trillions. Ireland has 47 times less than that.

Re: Half of Ireland's young people have low level of mental wellbeing

#58

Post by ToucanLoucan » Tue, Apr 16, 2024, 4:52 PM UTC

negamax wrote: post #41

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally in the headline of the source you linked states 20% are affordable or social housing, not all social housing. And a ten second google about what "social housing" means as I'm not Irish and don't know, tells me that social housing is not, in fact, free and is instead adjusted rent based on your ability to pay. I suppose it's not impossible that some of it is free, since some people may not be able to pay any…

Have you heard of HAP? Please read up on it. It's budget and impact on the everyday person. It's a roundabout way to giving free housing to people who don't work by taking money from people who do. End result is a broken and inflated marketplace

Sure. But speaking as an American, our housing market is plenty inflated and absolutely ridiculous, and we do everything just about short of shooting the homeless on sight here. So giving people places to live I don't think is the direct correlation to an inflated market that you think it is.

And like, to be totally honest and pinko commie scum of me, I am completely fine with being slightly less well off if it means people in my area get taken care of. That doesn't bother me.

Re: Half of Ireland's young people have low level of mental wellbeing

#59

Post by padjo » Tue, Apr 16, 2024, 4:52 PM UTC

negamax wrote: post #8

Ireland should be an international study about how a state destroyed itself by running a gigantic welfare state despite all of world's money pouring into it Almost €300B national debt. Government is giving free houses, money to people who don't work. It's the only relatively wealthy European country with unlimited dole. And people make a lifestyle out of living on welfare forever. This is despite huge corporation tax…

“A largely foreign born workforce” what right wing talking points claptrap is this?

Re: Half of Ireland's young people have low level of mental wellbeing

#60

Post by romafirst3 » Tue, Apr 16, 2024, 4:52 PM UTC

anotherhue wrote: post #38

stcredzero wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am curious. Please give us more information on what you are referring to and your specific point of view.

https://archive.ph/raUZk (originally https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/15/world/europe/ireland-hous... ) Allow me to further point out that 'just live with your parents' requires that your parents be close to your job. However the lion's share of jobs (worth having) are in Dublin. Therefore if you're not from Dublin you don't get the free parents rent, you pay the same $3k that you would rather pay as a mortgage or sav…

Article is paywalled but seems to just be a hyperbolic headline in the style of US papers talking about foreign countries.

The social contract has not been completely ruptured. I checked last week.