I suppose it's related, that for athletes, ice baths after exercising are to be avoided because they hinder hypertrophy.
Hypertrophy is often not the goal.
Are there any athletes who want hypertrophy? Bodybuilders aside.
Ice to treat soft-tissue injuries contraindicated by creator of protocol
51–60 of 72 posts
Re: Ice to treat soft-tissue injuries contraindicated by creator of protocol
#52[deleted]
Re: Ice to treat soft-tissue injuries contraindicated by creator of protocol
#53one wonders how it ever even seemed like common sense to disrupt the body's evolved immune response to acute, traumatic soft-tissue injury, never mind good conventional medical advice. ice to preserve a detached structure? sure. quelling the inflammation of organs or the brain? yeah, those types of inflammation can turn into a cascading collection of responses, often (but not always) having distinct non-traumatic roo…
That's because the body's initial response is often way out of proportion. I get the flu and my body decides to turn up the heat. There's pollen in the air and my nose goes into lockdown for weeks. I've dislocated my kneecap a few times and the near-immediate swelling was much worse than the actual injury. Recovery took a few weeks anyway so easing my discomfort for a couple of hours made no difference.
This is likely because you are deficient in vitamin D.
Re: Ice to treat soft-tissue injuries contraindicated by creator of protocol
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
What exactly do we need to unlearn about Fats vs Sugars vs Proteins?
In my life, eggs have been both bad and good. Butter vs margarine. Atkins vs paleo vs whatever else. Calorie restriction vs more exercise. Lots of junk science. Lots of marketing fluff. But, also lots of recommendations that were assumed correct but didn't stand up to deeper scrutiny. Note, I'm not saying any of this is bad, or that scientists are stupid and wrong all the time. Just always amazed about how much our u…
Thanks. All of those examples aren't about macronutrients though, which I thought were fairly well understood. (Though I'm sure various myths about them have been spread: such as another commenter suggesting "you can't get fat if you don't eat fat.")
Nutrition is definitely a minefield, I'm with you there!
Re: Ice to treat soft-tissue injuries contraindicated by creator of protocol
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ice is good for muscle recovery immediately after strenuous activity . Within minutes is best, up to an hour or so is still effective. After that you need warmth. Strenuous here means lifting your one rep max, running 20 miles, breaking a personal best sprint time, that sort of thing. I can attest from personal experience that ice bath right after exercise works in these cases. I’ve even tested it by icing just one l…
I think the idea is that you performed the exercise to create stress that you want your body to respond to by getting stronger / more aerobically fit etc in some way. So by icing, yes, you recover better, but by reducing the stress you reduce the adaptations. Imagine you could perfectly recover with some intervention. Then weight lifting no longer works! For examples like the ones you listed, peak performances where…
> and maybe even have to perform again soon after, it makes a lot of sense to do anything to recover quickly
For running specifically I’m not trying to make my legs stronger, I’m improving cardio. I need the legs to be in good shape for tomorrow’s hard run :)
Re: Ice to treat soft-tissue injuries contraindicated by creator of protocol
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
What exactly do we need to unlearn about Fats vs Sugars vs Proteins?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18296750 : > This article examines how faith in science led physicians and patients to embrace the low-fat diet for heart disease prevention and weight loss. Scientific studies dating from the late 1940s showed a correlation between high-fat diets and high-cholesterol levels, suggesting that a low-fat diet might prevent heart disease in high-risk patients. By the 1960s, the low-fat die…
Thanks for the link. My understanding is that fats are more energy dense than simple carbs, and therefore eating high-fat diets is more likely to cause weight gain. The article is interesting, but it seems to take for granted that this isn't true. Are there any evidence-based studies you can link?
Re: Ice to treat soft-tissue injuries contraindicated by creator of protocol
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
What exactly do we need to unlearn about Fats vs Sugars vs Proteins?
Ancedotally. Growing up, there was a huge push towards "fat-free" and "low fat" foods that is extremely ingrained in my parents generation. I can only summarize it as an ingrained feeling of "Fat is what fat people have". It meant they avoided it like the plague while completely overdoing it on other bad stuff.
Then, just like now, unscrupulous product marketing and media mistates medical consensus or ascribes consensus where there there is none. Just look at Snackwells. The product marketing term "Doctor recommended" does not mean all doctors, or even specialists in the relevant area.
Unless you are talking to a physician or reading a medical journal, anyone should assume that someone claiming to talk about what the medical community believes is probably wrong and possibly lying.
In the context of the current conversation, reducing saturated fats and bad cholesteral was a reactions to this epidemic https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24811552/
After peaking in the mid-1960s, the number of heart disease deaths began a marked decline that has persisted to the present. The increase in heart disease deaths from the early 20th century until the 1960s was due to an increase in the prevalence of coronary atherosclerosis with resultant coronary heart disease, as documented by autopsy studies. This increase was associated with an increase in smoking and dietary changes leading to an increase in serum cholesterol levels
Re: Ice to treat soft-tissue injuries contraindicated by creator of protocol
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hypertrophy is often not the goal.
Are there any athletes who want hypertrophy? Bodybuilders aside.
Hypertrophy improves performance in any sport which demands speed and power, up to a point. Anyone playing basketball or gridiron football or hockey at an elite level tends to be pretty heavily musceled.
Re: Ice to treat soft-tissue injuries contraindicated by creator of protocol
#59It is contraindicated from the parameter of speed of recovery/healing. While that's important in order for someone to get back to work or a sport, the most important parameter should be quality of recovery, in my opinion.
I'm not prepared to provide citations, but my understanding is that the evidence indicates that attempting to inhibit inflammation also reduces that. For example, the use of NSAIDs to treat sports injuries is associated with an increased risk of things like chronic pain and lasting reductions in strength and mobility. This part of why the A in PEACE & LOVE stands for "avoid anti-inflammatories".
The usual recommendation regarding ice is that it's only supposed to be used for a short while, immediately after the injury. Like minutes to hours. If used on the second day at all, the protocol is to alternate it heat. Pills may end up used for days. Some of them have long half-lives; e.g. 17 hours for naproxen.
Re: Ice to treat soft-tissue injuries contraindicated by creator of protocol
#60one wonders how it ever even seemed like common sense to disrupt the body's evolved immune response to acute, traumatic soft-tissue injury, never mind good conventional medical advice. ice to preserve a detached structure? sure. quelling the inflammation of organs or the brain? yeah, those types of inflammation can turn into a cascading collection of responses, often (but not always) having distinct non-traumatic roo…
That's because the body's initial response is often way out of proportion. I get the flu and my body decides to turn up the heat. There's pollen in the air and my nose goes into lockdown for weeks. I've dislocated my kneecap a few times and the near-immediate swelling was much worse than the actual injury. Recovery took a few weeks anyway so easing my discomfort for a couple of hours made no difference.
From what I remember, turning up the heat is an attempt by your body to kill off the virus. This is a natural response, not a genetic mistake.
Our sinuses have shrunk and or airways collapsed far too quickly for evolution to adapt, leaving us highly susceptible to allergies and inflammation. This makes the likelihood of catching a cold or flu much worse. It also makes the healing process longer.
I very much recommend you read Breath by James Nestor if you suffer from allergies. Or at the very least, let chafgpt summarize it for you.