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Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

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Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#51
post #6

Without the Live Nation monopoly, tickets prices should stay the same, but the split between venue, artist, and ticket service should change, right?

Probably not. The fees get split between them already.

What would be nice would be having independent venues that aren't all selling the same canned water and ticket prices showing the fees.

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#52
post #7

The fees alone are one thing. But the fees that are a percentage of the purchase price are quite another. That transforms them from fees into a tax.

I don't think it's good to be calling non-government charges a tax. Fee or Commission works fine here. The line item for sellers/buyers agent isn't "tax" when you buy/sell a house despite it being a percentage.

Let's go the other way! Any of these corporate entities that control am entire vertical were produced by the centralizing logic of the US economy and legal landscape. Boeing is but the USG's plane manufacturing division, masquerading as a public company. Live Nation is the defacto ticketing provider. As government (created, controlled) entities, it's entirely reasonable to me to call this a tax.

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it was the breakup of AT&T on Jan 1, 1982 (the result of a suit started in 1974). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakup_of_the_Bell_System

Which is nuts. The DoJ needs to take a battle ax to Ticketmaster to set an example. They need to prove that they are still willing and able to throw down if necessary. TM is a disposable target, they don't build anything critical to the economy or national security. They could be deleted from the earth and dozens of replacements would spring up in a week. TM is so hated that, if the DoJ goes for the jugular and misse…

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Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#54
post #7

The fees alone are one thing. But the fees that are a percentage of the purchase price are quite another. That transforms them from fees into a tax.

I don't think it's good to be calling non-government charges a tax. Fee or Commission works fine here. The line item for sellers/buyers agent isn't "tax" when you buy/sell a house despite it being a percentage.

> Fee or Commission works fine here. The line item for sellers/buyers agent isn't "tax" when you buy/sell a house despite it being a percentage.

This is actually equally as cancerous - there is a reason realtors have one of the biggest lobbying groups in America.

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes this is basically correct. The lawsuits can also drag out for years. They can be avoided by late changes - for example Microsoft just removed Teams from Office bundles, and will get away with having caused damage to users and competitors for years. Congress has avoided the responsibility of passing new harsher antitrust legislation that simply skips the lawsuits and goes straight to fines.

> Congress has avoided the responsibility of passing new harsher antitrust legislation that simply skips the lawsuits and goes straight to fines. How would that work? Do you have some example of proposed legislation around this?

While maybe not pertinent to Ticketmaster...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMERICA_Act

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Innovation_and_Choice...

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#56
post #29

This is already a solved problem- look at how airline seats are handled.

Yeah, let's just put TSA checkpoints at the entrance of every concert venue. Problem solved!

No, I'm not talking about the TSA. I'm talking about how you can buy airline tickets through a number of different entities because they've cooperated on a system.

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#57

This is already a solved problem- look at how airline seats are handled.

Can you expand on this? It seems to me that a major difference between flight tickets and concert tickets is that when an airline overbooks they can switch you to a later flight. However, most concerts only perform once in a given city.

What is overbooking and why does it happen? From what I can tell, overbooking is entirely preventable and done to maximize profit. Just don't do that?

Hotels operate in a similar fashion as well.

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#58

This is already a solved problem- look at how airline seats are handled.

Can you expand on this? It seems to me that a major difference between flight tickets and concert tickets is that when an airline overbooks they can switch you to a later flight. However, most concerts only perform once in a given city.

Could sell two classes of tickets, one that is garunteed and one that might be overbooked. If you show up and find out you're overbooked you get a credit for another show (maybe even at some multiplier?). Basic Supply/Demand suggests that reducing the price means more demand, ie: more people going to go see shows, but would need to see it in practice to know for sure.

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#60
post #15

One important thing to know is that the venues/artists often get a kickback of part of the Ticketmaster fees. In other words, the artists, venues, producers, and Ticketmaster are in cahoots to fleece fans for as much money as possible, and Ticketmaster is willing to play the 'bad guy' and take the blame for high prices, and they get to keep a bigger slice of the overall pie than they would in a highly competitive mar…

An artist might want to opt out of this, though. They might think, and reasonably so, that the optics of having affordable tickets - even if they make less overall - is better for their brand identity and long—term benefit.

That LiveNation has created a de facto system where they cannot opt out of their price setting is at the heart of the entire matter.

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