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Framework's software and firmware have been a mess, but it's working on them

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Re: Framework's software and firmware have been a mess, but it's working on them

#51

I'm genuinely concerned that launching the 16 will kill them. They were already stretched too thin just by supporting both Intel and AMD on the 13, and the gaming-focused target market for the 16 won't have the same patience.

I had the same thoughts. 16 has a bunch of things I didn’t ask for, meanwhile firmware is still vulnerable to logofail. First things first, people.

Re: Framework's software and firmware have been a mess, but it's working on them

#52
post #41

I have bought two Framework 13 laptops, and have been happy with them overall. I love their vision of a repairable laptop, and have replaced parts on them, without issue. That is a great achievement. I have had issues with drivers, and specifically had to reinstall windows to reflash firmware to get a new touch pad to work in linux. Bummer, but I'm also running on the fringe a little, so I accept that. Overall, the e…

My biggest gripe is that for something intended to be DIY upgradable, 2 years later, there is a complete lack of ecosystem and parts for it. I was hoping for pluggable modules for {IMU, GPS, barometer, geiger counter, air quality sensor, software-defined radio, 5G cellular, RGB LEDs, power-over-ethernet charging, even a small motor module so the laptop can drag itself around on the table}. And what do we get? Some st…

I guess this means not that many people buy Framework laptops, or at least not enough Framework users are interested enough in tweaking the laptop. Compare this situation to >$300 ergonomic keyboard circle, you might think that is an extremely niche market, but sounds like there are more weird keyboards out there than DIY framework parts.

Re: Framework's software and firmware have been a mess, but it's working on them

#53
post #40

I actually have no problem with this because Dell/Lenovo/HP software and firmware is a mess. I suspect the issue is that the underlying platform is shit and a mess and this is being reflected in the software. At least Framework are trying, unlike Dell/Lenovo/HP.

Can't agree, at least Lenovo is trying:

https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/25/24081225/lenovo-thinkpad-...

Dell on the other hand...

Re: Framework's software and firmware have been a mess, but it's working on them

#54
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "not overcomplicate" way is to buy Microsoft, DELL or Lenovo. I'd assume it would need near 0 paperwork for that. In most companies if you want to buy from a vendor that has no prior business relation you'll need to do the paperwork.

As a former founder and likely future founder, I'd just f it and buy whatever employees need to get their work done.

Remind me never to buy anything from said company...

Re: Framework's software and firmware have been a mess, but it's working on them

#55
post #53
post #40

I actually have no problem with this because Dell/Lenovo/HP software and firmware is a mess. I suspect the issue is that the underlying platform is shit and a mess and this is being reflected in the software. At least Framework are trying, unlike Dell/Lenovo/HP.

Can't agree, at least Lenovo is trying: https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/25/24081225/lenovo-thinkpad-... Dell on the other hand...

Load of marketing crap. USB ports soldered onto the motherboard and have you ever tried buying parts from Lenovo?

Also my T14 gen 3 has several firmware problems.

Re: Framework's software and firmware have been a mess, but it's working on them

#56
post #43

Most underrated framework machine is the Chromebook edition. Firmware is solid and loaded up with 2 TB NVME and 64GB DDR. It's x86 with hyper threaded cores and nested virtualization support. Runs android apps, and any distro you want via crostini. Supports docker, KVM (windows and macOS) from crostini. USB passthrough to crostini is super easy via ChromeOS settings panel. Only thing I really miss is passing a PCI de…

Nice specs. I feel ChromeOS, as a whole, is underrated. It's the best PHD (Push Here Dummy) OS out there, and updates are less painful than any other mainstream OS. One step further is Crostini, allowing a power user to fully deploy all of Linux, and do it in a secure manner that doesn't affect the underlying OS.

Re: Framework's software and firmware have been a mess, but it's working on them

#57
post #19
post #12

> Framework will need to step up its game, especially if it wants to sell more laptops to businesses—a lucrative slice of the PC industry that Framework is actively courting. This line really resonated with me. I own a 12th-gen Framework laptop personally, and have enjoyed using it enough that I wanted to have one at work as my existing machine is aging out. Like many businesses, my org requires some paperwork ("tele…

I'm not sure businesses would be interested in a modular laptop, I always assumed they prefer to just buy new ones when the time comes rather than having someone spending the time to service them for the needed uogrades. Currently, they don't even bother trying to reinstall Windows, which I think it would solve most of the performance problems that surface after about 3 years of operation of a laptop (assuming it's u…

Thinkpads are/were basically modular laptops for decades and I think they are as business, as business can get. I am pretty sure modern Thinkpads failing in modularity/repairability is on Lenovo cutting costs, not lack of demand. After all, some models are still fairly repairable/upgradable with good (video) documentation.

Re: Framework's software and firmware have been a mess, but it's working on them

#58
We are taking both the article and the comments here and elsewhere to heart. Our entire focus is on building products that get better over time through repair, upgrade, and overall design for longevity, and software is a necessary part of that. We recognize that we have fallen short of where we need to be, and are making the needed investments to resolve this.

Last week, we published the final release for the Windows version of 12th Gen along with more context around what has stalled the Linux updater: https://knowledgebase.frame.work/framework-laptop-bios-and-d...

Early this week, we'll be releasing final Framework Laptop 13 and Framework Laptop 16 AMD BIOS and Driver updates that have been in Community Beta testing over the last 10 days.

A few months ago, we released an 11th Gen BIOS update for Windows: https://knowledgebase.frame.work/framework-laptop-bios-relea...

With each of these complete, we've resolved both infrastructure and process issues that make it faster for us to iterate on BIOS and driver updates on each platform. Obviously, our words here are not enough. We need to and commit to demonstrating this by actually improving both our iteration speed on software updates and our communication processes so that you both know the status and are aware when we have releases.

Re: Framework's software and firmware have been a mess, but it's working on them

#59
post #22
post #16

I'm excited for their improvements. It's got to be incredibly hard to start a company that does what they do. Not the repairability part, but anything with modern hardware, firmware, and software. When I think of the other big names, they've all been around for quite some times and they were already established companies. I'm not excusing Framework, but I am excited for their future. My Framework 13 AMD has been runn…

I have had to RMA my entire AMD laptop due to a BSOD issue, that lives on in the replacement device. It isn't a DIY config, using their charger, etc. I am 70% sure it's firmware, but no matter what the root cause is, I have little faith that the problem can be resolved due to lack of transparency or knowledge of the root cause. Edit: I think this is why Dell/Apple end up winning in the end. Stability in a computer is…

We've found and resolved this issue. We'll be promoting the BIOS update that resolves it to stable later today, but you can pick up the release (3.05) early here: https://community.frame.work/t/framework-laptop-13-ryzen-704...

Re: Framework's software and firmware have been a mess, but it's working on them

#60
post #41

I have bought two Framework 13 laptops, and have been happy with them overall. I love their vision of a repairable laptop, and have replaced parts on them, without issue. That is a great achievement. I have had issues with drivers, and specifically had to reinstall windows to reflash firmware to get a new touch pad to work in linux. Bummer, but I'm also running on the fringe a little, so I accept that. Overall, the e…

My biggest gripe is that for something intended to be DIY upgradable, 2 years later, there is a complete lack of ecosystem and parts for it. I was hoping for pluggable modules for {IMU, GPS, barometer, geiger counter, air quality sensor, software-defined radio, 5G cellular, RGB LEDs, power-over-ethernet charging, even a small motor module so the laptop can drag itself around on the table}. And what do we get? Some st…

For the Expansion Cards you noted, several have been created by members of the Framework Community, and a few folks have started to sell the modules they are creating: https://community.frame.work/c/developer-program/85

Josh Cook is probably the most prolific developer and has most of his designs available for preorder: https://community.frame.work/t/custom-framework-module-purch...

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