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Marc Andreessen: I regret not doing more to support and defend Brendan Eich

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Re: Marc Andreessen: I regret not doing more to support and defend Brendan Eich

#51

Post by [deleted] »

tjansen wrote: post #39
makeitdouble wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an infinite number of arguments on how his publicly expressed (these donations were not anonymous) personal views impact his role as the head of an organization. If for instance valuable members of the org quit on it, recruiting becomes noticeably harder, Mozilla's PR is impacted and investors aren't happy about it, I'd assume that's enough to ask him to step down.

Ousting him had similar impact. I used to like Mozilla, but ever after that incident using Mozilla feels wrong. And I am not even a fan of Eich.

[deleted]

Re: Marc Andreessen: I regret not doing more to support and defend Brendan Eich

#52

Post by archagon »

weberer wrote: post #16
0xDEADFED5 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eich is free to express his opinions and free to suffer the consequences. CEO is a very political position and he made a politically bone-headed move. I don't see how it could have ended any differently.

It was obviously a targeted, coordinated attack. People were looking decades back into his donation history to try to find anything that tied him to "the right wing". A thousand dollars a decade before to a anti-gay-marriage proposition in California that most Californians agreed with him on at the time. A few thousand dollars two decades back to Ron Paul. Why do you claim he should "suffer" for that? Should half the…

I don't have strong opinions about the Eich situation. But:

> Should half the country "suffer" as well just for voting Republican?

In the past, probably not. With today's Republicans? Absolutely. You don't get to knowingly vote for a fascist and his corrupt sycophants and face no repercussions. If your politics are "I don't give a fuck about democracy unless I win," our world views are entirely incompatible and I don't want to give you an iota of support.

Re: Marc Andreessen: I regret not doing more to support and defend Brendan Eich

#53

Post by archagon »

richrichie wrote: post #38
defrost wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Judge clarifies: Yes, Trump was found to have raped E. Jean Carroll https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/07/19/trump-car... https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.59... As is shown in the following notes, the definition of rape in the New York Penal Law is far narrower than the meaning of “rape” in common modern parlance, its definition in some dictionaries, in some federal and state crimin…

No cigar. Rape is a criminal offense and the convict goes straight to jail. You can’t make up definitions and “convict” people in popular opinion.

[flagged]

Re: Marc Andreessen: I regret not doing more to support and defend Brendan Eich

#54

Post by MOARDONGZPLZ »

SuperNinKenDo wrote: post #49
MOARDONGZPLZ wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like he actively fought against equal rights and a level playing field. That position should be morally repugnant in a modern society. I’d say doing nothing (I.e. too little) was actually too much.

You can say whatever you like. When the mob comes for you, you'll cry foul and appeal to freedom of conscience. Nobody will give a damn because that isn't a value anyone cleaves to any longer. Nobody cares that YOU think YOUR principles are a special case.

As far as I am aware, I don’t hold values or principles that are abhorrent to foundational ethical guidelines. If I ever do, I don’t expect any sympathy from others as I reevaluate my views in light of new information and grow as a person.

This person specifically fought against equal rights. The way most people look at what he did (and the way certainly anyone but the most virulent bigots in the future will) is the same way we today look at the people who threw rocks at MLK during the civil rights movement.

Re: Marc Andreessen: I regret not doing more to support and defend Brendan Eich

#55

Post by SuperNinKenDo »

MOARDONGZPLZ wrote: post #54
SuperNinKenDo wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can say whatever you like. When the mob comes for you, you'll cry foul and appeal to freedom of conscience. Nobody will give a damn because that isn't a value anyone cleaves to any longer. Nobody cares that YOU think YOUR principles are a special case.

As far as I am aware, I don’t hold values or principles that are abhorrent to foundational ethical guidelines. If I ever do, I don’t expect any sympathy from others as I reevaluate my views in light of new information and grow as a person. This person specifically fought against equal rights. The way most people look at what he did (and the way certainly anyone but the most virulent bigots in the future will) is the…

This is just a long way of stating your confidence that your values will always be in lock-step with whatever the most powerful zetigeist in your society is at any one time. Which is its own problem that you should reflect on.

Eich hasn't thrown rocks at anyone and it's disengenuous to frame it otherwise, especually considering you could have made a perfectly good argument without that.

Edit: The question isn't whether you think he did something wrong, it's whether you think that people who have contributed massively to causes or organisations should be driven out for reasons that have nothing to do with those causes or organisations.

Re: Marc Andreessen: I regret not doing more to support and defend Brendan Eich

#56

Post by BrendanEich »

scandinavian wrote: post #12

He's also an avid anti-vaxer and covid conspiracist. Does it matter? Not sure. I will personally not touch anything he is helming (brave).

Unlike you and your smears, I make my positions clear and cite my sources for them.

If you mean by "anti-vaxer (sic)" my opposition to the Covid shots and mandates, then so be it. Many, including me, who have had older vaccines, especially from before the 1986 US liability shield and subsequent problems, are "anti-vax". Even though we still vaccinate our children.

"Covid conspiracist" must mean I cited lab leak possibility and reasons for considering it. Now that federal agencies agree, you should reconsider this lame smear attempt.

Your use of (misspelled) "spell words" (Roger Scruton's phrase) to curse me marks you as superstitious and thoughtless. Do better!

Re: Marc Andreessen: I regret not doing more to support and defend Brendan Eich

#57

Post by raxxorraxor »

makeitdouble wrote: post #36
raxxorraxor wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that the case? Same applies to people trying to oust others on such grounds. I would never support an organization with that much lack of a spine and in my quite pragmatic views the requirements here are fairly low due to economic realities. I trust the leadership of Mozilla a fair bit less than previously and I believe it at least now has a toxic work environment I also would probably not like to work for. I stil…

On Mozilla in particular, I think people joining it and supporting it in general have a fairly stronger opinion on what an organization should have as values than for many other large size companies (let's say Microsoft, Oracle or Accenture for instance). Is a good or a bad thing ? Honestly I don't think Mozilla would have grown as much without all the social clout it has. There's no denying it has a tremendous effec…

Yes, we would have to disagree. Mozilla previously had a reputation of being open and tolerant, even for people with more conservative viewpoints. While the proclamation for inclusion might be louder today, it is far less believable now.

Especially if there are any moral "handcuffs" as you say, because that would be an obvious contradiction to their stated values which I would argue people will notice.

The rules of PR demand that you are less free with what you communicate and it also demands you to lie. Many opportunities that Mozilla had were lost without any gain.

Hard to believe that Eich discriminated against gay people like you suggested. And I feel that isn't even the issue of those that complained here.

Re: Marc Andreessen: I regret not doing more to support and defend Brendan Eich

#58

Post by richrichie »

archagon wrote: post #53
richrichie wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No cigar. Rape is a criminal offense and the convict goes straight to jail. You can’t make up definitions and “convict” people in popular opinion.

[flagged]

Sorry, in the US, only courts convict. And if you are convicted of rape, you go to jail. Word play does not count here. Last time i checked he is still walking around, campaigning.

Re: Marc Andreessen: I regret not doing more to support and defend Brendan Eich

#59

Post by mvc »

hagbard_c wrote: post #29
0xDEADFED5 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eich is free to express his opinions and free to suffer the consequences. CEO is a very political position and he made a politically bone-headed move. I don't see how it could have ended any differently.

> CEO is a very political position and he made a politically bone-headed move No, that is not what happened. Political activists inside companies have gained power as a result of the 'long march through the institutions [1] which they have been using to enforce their ideology in rigid fashion. This started in the lunch rooms but eventually reached all the way to the top. Eich, like many other CEO's was replaced by a…

You can't drive politics out of everything by making "the market" king and then be surprised when activists then take the fight to the market.

What did you think was going to happen?

Re: Marc Andreessen: I regret not doing more to support and defend Brendan Eich

#60

Post by dang »

archagon wrote: post #52
weberer wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was obviously a targeted, coordinated attack. People were looking decades back into his donation history to try to find anything that tied him to "the right wing". A thousand dollars a decade before to a anti-gay-marriage proposition in California that most Californians agreed with him on at the time. A few thousand dollars two decades back to Ron Paul. Why do you claim he should "suffer" for that? Should half the…

I don't have strong opinions about the Eich situation. But: > Should half the country "suffer" as well just for voting Republican? In the past, probably not. With today's Republicans? Absolutely. You don't get to knowingly vote for a fascist and his corrupt sycophants and face no repercussions. If your politics are "I don't give a fuck about democracy unless I win," our world views are entirely incompatible and I don…

Your account has swerved into using HN primarily for political and ideological battle. I don't know why, but it's dismaying, because you've been a great contributor in the past but now you're posting more battle comments than not.

This is not allowed on HN, regardless of which politics you're for or against, or how right you are or feel you are. We have to ban accounts that post like this and I definitely don't want to ban you, so if you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stop posting like this, that would be good.

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