Employing Others Is Linked to Wealth and Wellbeing
51–60 of 67 posts
Re: Employing Others Is Linked to Wealth and Wellbeing
#52I'm struggling to understand the difference between self employed workers/contractors, an non-employer owners - specifically, which am I? Some facts: - I own a CAD design service - I don't employ others (but this might be changing, see details below) - I don't work on contract - I only have one customer, for four years now - My revenue is around 30k/yr Considerations: I'm almost an employee for my customer. However I…
>But I'm not on a contract or 1099 - the customer just sends me work and I invoice for it.
Assuming you mean the U.S. 1099-NEC tax form, you most certainly are "on 1099". If your client is not issuing one to you every year, they are breaking the law and subject to penalties.
Re: Employing Others Is Linked to Wealth and Wellbeing
#53Tempting to deduce that employing people will make you happier and wealthier: it wont. It will just kill your business faster and reduce the chance you show up in a Gallup poll as a business owner at all. People who have employees and haven’t yet gone out of business are likely to have a good product and business model. Having a good business model is likely to make you wealthier than not having yet found a good busi…
It seems like employing others without failing is the condition they find is linked to higher happiness and wealth, rather than just trying to employ. I'm okay with that insight. Employing others is riskier, but gives happiness and wealth advantages to the tiny 2% that succeed. A question I have: of the 2%, what fraction comes from money and privilege, what fraction comes from the middle class, and what fraction come…
Re: Employing Others Is Linked to Wealth and Wellbeing
#54I'm struggling to understand the difference between self employed workers/contractors, an non-employer owners - specifically, which am I? Some facts: - I own a CAD design service - I don't employ others (but this might be changing, see details below) - I don't work on contract - I only have one customer, for four years now - My revenue is around 30k/yr Considerations: I'm almost an employee for my customer. However I…
The article uses some sloppy definitions, but best I can tell, you would be considered self-employed according to the article. What they conveniently leave out is the large portion of workers who are actually employees per common law, but both they and the "employer" agree to ignore the law because they think it benefits them to do so, and they likely won't be caught (but if they are, paying all the back payroll taxe…
Suppose I was a machine shop rebuilding engines for mechanic shops. They send me busted engines, and I send them working engines and invoices, which the customer pays. I'm on the hook for a warranty if the engine fails due to my mistake. There is no need for a 1099. Why is that?
In my case, the client sends rough and noisy data from CMM devices, and I return smoothed and rationalized designs and invoices, and I'm financially on the hook for mistakes that cause rework. How am I legally different from the machine shop?
Don't say single customer, since that seems irrelevant. I'm free to sell to other customers, including my customer's own competitors.
If you can cite specific documents or laws, that will help.
I would also like to know your reasoning for why you think I'm self employed rather than a NEO. You just state your view, but that doesn't explain the principles you're applying.
I also don't understand your reasoning as to why you think I'm committing or helping my customer commit employer tax fraud. I own my own process, intellectual property, and material assets. I have to service my liabilities, I'm on the hook if I cause damages, and I am free to sell to competitors. I am clearly a sole proprietor. The question is how I fall in the article's classification.
If you would please explain your reasoning behind these things, that would help me decide whether your analysis/implied advice is helpful to me. Thanks!
Re: Employing Others Is Linked to Wealth and Wellbeing
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
Such as? It seems to me that whatever risk the owning class has can be easily controlled by diversifying. And what liabilities do they have?
The fact that you call them the "owning class" makes it seem like you're not interested in fair handed analysis.
Re: Employing Others Is Linked to Wealth and Wellbeing
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
The article uses some sloppy definitions, but best I can tell, you would be considered self-employed according to the article. What they conveniently leave out is the large portion of workers who are actually employees per common law, but both they and the "employer" agree to ignore the law because they think it benefits them to do so, and they likely won't be caught (but if they are, paying all the back payroll taxe…
Can you please explain why I should get a 1099 from the customer? Suppose I was a machine shop rebuilding engines for mechanic shops. They send me busted engines, and I send them working engines and invoices, which the customer pays. I'm on the hook for a warranty if the engine fails due to my mistake. There is no need for a 1099. Why is that? In my case, the client sends rough and noisy data from CMM devices, and I…
Because it's the law. Per IRS instructions for Form 1099-NEC[0], which applies to your customer:
File Form 1099-NEC, Nonemployee Compensation, for each person in the course of your business to whom you have paid the following during the year.
• At least $600 in:
1. Services performed by someone who is not your employee (including parts and materials) (box 1); or
2. Payments to an attorney (box 1). (See Payments to attorneys, later.)
>I would also like to know your reasoning for why you think I'm self employed rather than a NEO. You just state your view, but that doesn't explain the principles you're applying.I wasn't stating my view regarding NEO, I was trying to apply the sloppy, partly overlapping definitions provided by the article. The term "self-employed" is pretty well understood and referenced in the tax code; the term "NEO" is just something used in this article to draw some unclear (to me) distinction. If you talk to your state's employment development department, a tax professional, or a banker, they will probably not understand what you mean by "NEO".
> I am clearly a sole proprietor.
The rules are pretty well established, and come down to what tax people call "facts and circumstances". Per IRS Pub 15-A,
"To determine whether an individual is an employee or an independent contractor under the common-law rules, the relationship of the worker and the business must be examined. In any employee-independent contractor determination, all information that provides evidence of the degree of control and the degree of independence must be considered.
Facts that provide evidence of the degree of control and independence fall into three categories: behavioral control, financial control, and the type of relationship of the parties."
See Pub 15-A for a more detailed discussion.
> that would help me decide whether your analysis/implied advice is helpful to me
I did not give you any advice, I was only trying to explain what the rules are and how they are applied. If you pay your full tax obligation including self-employment tax, and neither you nor the firm are ever audited, you will probably do just fine. You are missing out on employment benefits such as worker's comp, unemployment insurance, overtime, paid vacation/sick leave, etc. but you don't seem to mind.
[0]I could look up the actual tax law but don't need to spend that time for this purpose.
Re: Employing Others Is Linked to Wealth and Wellbeing
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
> And what liabilities do they have? All of them associated with operating their business. The most pertinent to this discussion would obviously be workers compensation in cases of work related injury or illness.
That's what insurance is for. And if it gets really bad, there is the corporate veil for that. Just declare bankruptcy and start over. Not like you are losing the money you extracted from the company.
Is insurance that offers unlimited coverage free? No? That's a liability, then. You will have to pay this insurance whether you are profitable or not. That's a risk, you see?
> there is the corporate veil for that.
Very few business actually structure themselves in such a way to receive this benefit. It's not automatic either, you'll still need lawyers to make this argument for you in court should you be sued.
> Just declare bankruptcy and start over.
You do realize there are multiple different types of bankruptcies and not all of them allow you walk away and "start over."
> Not like you are losing the money you extracted from the company.
Yes, those are called "profits" and they are taxed. Most companies are not entirely liquid and the majority of the value is in the operation not in past "extracted" money.
Re: Employing Others Is Linked to Wealth and Wellbeing
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
It seems like employing others without failing is the condition they find is linked to higher happiness and wealth, rather than just trying to employ. I'm okay with that insight. Employing others is riskier, but gives happiness and wealth advantages to the tiny 2% that succeed. A question I have: of the 2%, what fraction comes from money and privilege, what fraction comes from the middle class, and what fraction come…
That "bourgeois" is (or at least used to be) a synonym for city-dweller, and even today is still associated with even small business or even just home ownership, might be a constructive direction to consider ?
It used to denote a middle class stratum between the peasants and the aristocracy, or even just city dwellers.
However, I use it in the Marxist sense, to refer to the current capitalist leadership and ownership class, which emerged during the industrial revolution.
Homeowners and small business owners are petit bourgeois - little bourgeois/middle class. This is different from the haute bourgeois - high bourgeois/upper class.
During times of stability, the petit bourgeois want what the haute bourgeois want, and aspire to become haute bourgeois. During times of instability, the upper class tramples the middle class, turning them into an enemy.
I think we're entering a time were petits no longer really expect the hautes to help them. And I think that's a good thing, since that makes petits more likely to help revolutionize!
Re: Employing Others Is Linked to Wealth and Wellbeing
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you please explain why I should get a 1099 from the customer? Suppose I was a machine shop rebuilding engines for mechanic shops. They send me busted engines, and I send them working engines and invoices, which the customer pays. I'm on the hook for a warranty if the engine fails due to my mistake. There is no need for a 1099. Why is that? In my case, the client sends rough and noisy data from CMM devices, and I…
>Can you please explain why I should get a 1099 from the customer? Because it's the law. Per IRS instructions for Form 1099-NEC[0], which applies to your customer: File Form 1099-NEC, Nonemployee Compensation, for each person in the course of your business to whom you have paid the following during the year. • At least $600 in: 1. Services performed by someone who is not your employee (including parts and materials)…
However, we were structured as a partnership, and later became a sole proprietorship. And both require 1099s!
It's even possible my partner at the time described us an LLC when we initially acquired the customer. So they might be fully blindsided by this issue.
It seems I must inform my customer that they need to retroactively file 1099s, and eat the consequences.
Assuming they didn't know, I face a risk that they will drop me - or even sue - for the expense and misrepresentation.
If they did know all along, the risk of losing the customer seems to grows by a lot if I now request correction.
I'm going to consult with a CPA this upcoming week and do the right thing. As you can likely infer by now, there are other non-compliance issues that we will need to address. But the fact that I've put my own customer at risk is hitting me like a ton of bricks. Never would I have expected or intended that.
I will immediately formulate a plan to remediate, with the aid of a CPA.
I very glad you called my attention to this very serious issue. You have just saved me a world of pain, even if fixing this is going to hurt like the dickens.
Thank you very much, PopAlongKid.
Re: Employing Others Is Linked to Wealth and Wellbeing
#60I'm struggling to understand the difference between self employed workers/contractors, an non-employer owners - specifically, which am I? Some facts: - I own a CAD design service - I don't employ others (but this might be changing, see details below) - I don't work on contract - I only have one customer, for four years now - My revenue is around 30k/yr Considerations: I'm almost an employee for my customer. However I…
in an EU country you would most likely be forced to be an employee because it looks like you have a dependent relationship with your customer/employer. your disability makes that even more so. (protections for disabled employees are very strong in the EU) 1099 obviously does not apply, but even if it is just verbal, you are on a contract. but you are also building something to make you more independent, which is good…
as per the other comments, clearly 1099 does apply. i only briefly looked at a short description and missed the key line "other income".