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High Definition CSS Color Guide

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Re: High Definition CSS Color Guide

#51

Post by jameshart »

eviks wrote: post #50
jameshart wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you want this particular red to be a special easy to pick color?

Such "pure" colors are foundational mental categories, or anchors, so that's only natural they should be the easiest - it makes working with colors more accessible But they should all be easy, and your suggestion fails at multiple points as I've explained above, not only for red, so the I'm puzzled why you insist it should be that hard and want a proof of the opposite

Red is a much bigger category of color than #ff0000 though.

Re: High Definition CSS Color Guide

#52

Post by lucideer »

karaterobot wrote: post #47
lucideer wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

p3 has been the default for Apple desktop & mobile displays since 2017 (iPhone 7 era). Other device manufacturers are more likely to have lagged on that but I would imagine a fair number would have added support since. Also, within CSS & browsers at least, the colours gracefully degrade based on the hardware, so using p3 in a supported browser is not going to look terrible on hardware without p3 support.

Apple devices (both web and mobile together) are about 23% of web users, even assuming 100% of them are from after 2017. I think you're right that there are quite a few non-Apple displays that support P3, but I can't find stats on how many web users that translates to. I assume it's 50% or less though.

Apple is 23% worldwide, but if a brand is looking at specific markets, it can be as high as 40%+ (US).

As for p3 adoption outside of Apple-land, you're right there's no good stats but I'd wager they're higher than you're making out. 62% of the (global) market is mobile (average replacement cycle is ~2.5 years so most will be a bit newer than 2017). Samsung have adopted p3 & are 24% of global share alone.

Desktop is going to be your smallest share but even there ASUS are selling DCI-P3 laptops for $500. And the growing gamer demographic are going to be investing in their screens after they're done paying for their RTX...

Re: High Definition CSS Color Guide

#53

Post by pquki4 »

zokier wrote: post #34
pquki4 wrote: post #21

Joke is on them to think I care about any of this when I work on my company-issued ThinkPad T14 with a 45% NTSC screen that maxes out at 300 nits. Realistically, at this time, this is for developers who works on a MacBook and creates web pages for users that use MacBook or iPad Air/Pro. Most Windows laptops under $600 don't even have sRGB, and even some over $1k don't (like my ThinkPad). sRGB is often as good as it g…

I wouldn't call P3 very rare. Thinkpads are available with 100% DCI-P3 OLED displays in addition to 100% sRGB IPS displays. Your company is just cheaping on the configuration. Same goes for Dell XPS line and HP Zbooks, latter which also have P3 IPS display configuration available. Sure, lots of random corporate office workers might have some crappy bottom of the barrel displays, but then you don't need P3 to see five…

I am aware that there are ThinkPads with P3 displays, but only in very specific configuration. Most come with 45% NTSC displays, and 100% sRGB is an upgrade option in T series. If you don't believe me, you can go to lenovo.com and check this right now. With regard to other brands, yes they have P3 "available", but most standard configurations come with 100% sRGB. And yes I did research on that as well.

Re: High Definition CSS Color Guide

#54

Post by pquki4 »

Jonnax wrote: post #48
pquki4 wrote: post #21

Joke is on them to think I care about any of this when I work on my company-issued ThinkPad T14 with a 45% NTSC screen that maxes out at 300 nits. Realistically, at this time, this is for developers who works on a MacBook and creates web pages for users that use MacBook or iPad Air/Pro. Most Windows laptops under $600 don't even have sRGB, and even some over $1k don't (like my ThinkPad). sRGB is often as good as it g…

iPhones and Android phones don't exist? Perhaps all Android phones are $200 and don't support HDR. There's a lot of windows laptops that support P3 or in the case of some OLED displays exceed Display P3's gamut. The same for monitors. There's 4K OLEDs hitting the market hitting about 80% rec 2020 and completely covering Display P3. Your display market knowledge is a few years outdated.

When I say "rare", I didn't mean that the models don't exist. I meant that the screens in devices that most people actually buy are crap. I am very aware that there are laptops with OLED screens, and OLED monitors. But they are still in the minority, especially those expensive OLED monitors. If you want to know what the market is really like for Windows devices or monitors, go to Amazon or Best Buy, find the best selling items, and check the display specs. I can guarantee very few support P3.

Re: High Definition CSS Color Guide

#55

Post by naoru »

By some weird coincidence I've been trying to make a wide gamut display work properly on Windows just yesterday. Short version: no success. We're so close but still so far.

Long rant: I've got a Windows 10 machine with NVidia graphics, a company issued Windows 11 laptop with an integrated Intel GPU and a fairly recent Macbook. The display in question is MSI MAG274UPF, which can be considered wide gamut.

Mac (presumably) pulls RGB primaries from the EDID and performs the necessary gamut mapping without losing the ability to display images in P3 space. Colors are perfect, wide gamut tests pass, everyone's happy.

Windows 10 has no idea what to do with WCG and displays everything in ultra vivid, extra saturated colors even after trying to mess with vendor-provided ICC profile. WCG tests fail.

Windows 11 should have Auto Color Management, which in theory should bring us roughly to feature parity with macOS, but for some reason it allows me to turn it on only on the laptop's internal display, which has ~60% sRGB coverage. Apparently Windows does not want to enable gamut mapping in SDR mode on HDR certified displays, even if they conform only to DisplayHDR 400 specification, which is an abomination in itself. Results are the same as with Windows 10.

My disappointment is immeasurable. We could have proper WCG support in Windows world.

Re: High Definition CSS Color Guide

#56

Post by eviks »

jameshart wrote: post #51
eviks wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such "pure" colors are foundational mental categories, or anchors, so that's only natural they should be the easiest - it makes working with colors more accessible But they should all be easy, and your suggestion fails at multiple points as I've explained above, not only for red, so the I'm puzzled why you insist it should be that hard and want a proof of the opposite

Red is a much bigger category of color than #ff0000 though.

So? The value of anchor doesn't depend on it being the only color in its category

Re: High Definition CSS Color Guide

#57

Post by hwbunny »

posterguy wrote: post #31
hwbunny wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

99% of the new css features are not known or just unknown, because it's a hassle to use them. Syntax is just plain braindead. Just look at animations, grid and flexbox. These are supposed to fix lots of CSS2 era problems, and they do so in a mindboggingly shitty way. I mean anyone, who was responsible should be shot. And since it's a standard, it won't change for years to come. So the idiots who established these new…

A bit hyperbolic, no? Do you really find grid that hard to work with?

Non intuitive syntax is a nogo.
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