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The Bulgarian Computer's Global Reach: On Victor Petrov's "Balkan Cyberia"

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Re: The Bulgarian Computer's Global Reach: On Victor Petrov's "Balkan Cyberia"

#51

Post by thriftwy »

pvg wrote: post #36
thriftwy wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It happened in the middle of the transition period between uncontested communist rule and EU's unicorns and rainbows, and was not characteristic of what communist period's steady state looked like. It was characteristic of its failure modes, I would not contest that. The fact that you've used this transition period event as your prime example suggests you cannot solidly back up your claims about communist period. I a…

It happened in the middle of the transition period between uncontested communist rule and EU's unicorns and rainbows It didn't. I don't know where you got that idea, it's not borne out by anything reasonable you can read about it. The relevant Bulgarian expression (with an appropriate side of Turkish) is хал хабер си нямаш.

"Big Excursion" happened in 1989. Berlin Wall fell in the same 1989. Does it ring any bells? I'm not sure why one would claim stuff happened in a Second World country in 1989 is not a part of its transition period. Ethnic cleansings in Yusgoslavia and ex-USSR republics were also nigh or already started to happen.

I'm still apt to hear the comparison between repressiveness of pre-1989 democratic, capitalistic, NATO member Turkey and that of pre-1989 socialist Bulgaria.

Re: The Bulgarian Computer's Global Reach: On Victor Petrov's "Balkan Cyberia"

#52

Post by acd1357 »

mrtksn wrote: post #50
farmdve wrote: post #46

Before the 90s, Bulgaria was manufacturing almost everything, it had its problems, but it functioned from what we've been told. Afterwards every single factory was shuttered, sold to individuals for the equivalent of a dollar. After the borders were opened up, we experienced a huge outflow and all the smart people left. We are now a fast shrinking country, poor and even today the political scene is a joke.

If everything was great why people brought down the system? Is it maybe because everything worked thanks to having customer(the USSR) for ideological reasons and not because it was actually competitive or good? Maybe this was the reason why the factories and everything shut down when USSR was gone? IMHO the ideological markets are very dangerous, gives you the wrong feedback on your output and makes you completely re…

The factories went bankrupt because of corruption as far as I know. An often cited scheme in the press was that the management will buy raw materials at higher than normal prices and sell the products at low prices, of course in exchange for bribes. Other sectors of the economy were similarly brought down in various ways. Trade was not done only with the Eastern Bloc, so you can’t blame everything on the loss of those markets. The people who wanted democracy didn’t anticipate all that corruption and lack of accountability.

Re: The Bulgarian Computer's Global Reach: On Victor Petrov's "Balkan Cyberia"

#53

Post by thriftwy »

mrtksn wrote: post #50
farmdve wrote: post #46

Before the 90s, Bulgaria was manufacturing almost everything, it had its problems, but it functioned from what we've been told. Afterwards every single factory was shuttered, sold to individuals for the equivalent of a dollar. After the borders were opened up, we experienced a huge outflow and all the smart people left. We are now a fast shrinking country, poor and even today the political scene is a joke.

If everything was great why people brought down the system? Is it maybe because everything worked thanks to having customer(the USSR) for ideological reasons and not because it was actually competitive or good? Maybe this was the reason why the factories and everything shut down when USSR was gone? IMHO the ideological markets are very dangerous, gives you the wrong feedback on your output and makes you completely re…

> Bulgaria might have been compelled to send the troops for the invasions USSR might have started

List of countries which happily participated in USA's invasion of Iraq wants to say hello!

Re: The Bulgarian Computer's Global Reach: On Victor Petrov's "Balkan Cyberia"

#54

Post by thriftwy »

gessha wrote: post #43
thriftwy wrote: post #6

One of the first Sovirt Union's general purpose computers, the MESM[1], was built in some pre-revolutionary mansion outside Kiev. Romania also had significant semiconductor industry and DDR too, such as Kombinat Mikroelektronik "Karl Marx" Erfurt. I'm disappointed the article is so eager to tag late communist Bulgaria "repressive". The same myopic vision where Bulgaria can be of no significance, but also where social…

The Soviet electronics manufacturing and the politics around it were very interesting. Somebody else in the thread recommended the Asianometry video, go watch it. As for repressions, intellectuals getting censored, assasinated even [1]. Turkic and Roma populations getting forcibly assimilated [2]. Numerous personal accounts of asset seizure and blatant corruption among party members. Is that repression to call it out…

I don't know. You can find targeted assasinations done abroad by democratic regimes these days. Israel kills Iranian nuclear scientists more or less routinely. I mean, yes, that is tragic, but we have worse shit tolerated on our planet in the age XXI. Number of people affected is also expected to be fairly low.

With regards to forcible assimilations, I believe France, Denmark and Turkey did more or less the same stuff in the time frame. These are all democratic, capitalist NATO-member countries which are not always in the same sentence with "repressive". Again, that is tragic, but I wonder if most countries in the world aren't having worse contemporary skeletons in their closets.

I'm not challenging the actual grinding of people between state gears, just the myopic outlook where it is customary to use it against certain regimes' life experience but not others. People are conditioned to assume it was a torment to live in Bulgaria in 1980. The same people don't assume it was a torment to live in contemporary Turkey. In practice, both had their highs and lows.

With regards to asset seizure, I don't believe you were supposed to have any under socialism.

Re: The Bulgarian Computer's Global Reach: On Victor Petrov's "Balkan Cyberia"

#56

Post by softg »

thriftwy wrote: post #53
mrtksn wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If everything was great why people brought down the system? Is it maybe because everything worked thanks to having customer(the USSR) for ideological reasons and not because it was actually competitive or good? Maybe this was the reason why the factories and everything shut down when USSR was gone? IMHO the ideological markets are very dangerous, gives you the wrong feedback on your output and makes you completely re…

> Bulgaria might have been compelled to send the troops for the invasions USSR might have started List of countries which happily participated in USA's invasion of Iraq wants to say hello!

A list that includes Bulgaria, funnily enough

Re: The Bulgarian Computer's Global Reach: On Victor Petrov's "Balkan Cyberia"

#57

Post by pkphilip »

farmdve wrote: post #46

Before the 90s, Bulgaria was manufacturing almost everything, it had its problems, but it functioned from what we've been told. Afterwards every single factory was shuttered, sold to individuals for the equivalent of a dollar. After the borders were opened up, we experienced a huge outflow and all the smart people left. We are now a fast shrinking country, poor and even today the political scene is a joke.

What is the agricultural scene like in Bulgaria? Thriving or is it mostly food imports?

Re: The Bulgarian Computer's Global Reach: On Victor Petrov's "Balkan Cyberia"

#58

Post by mrtksn »

acd1357 wrote: post #52
mrtksn wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If everything was great why people brought down the system? Is it maybe because everything worked thanks to having customer(the USSR) for ideological reasons and not because it was actually competitive or good? Maybe this was the reason why the factories and everything shut down when USSR was gone? IMHO the ideological markets are very dangerous, gives you the wrong feedback on your output and makes you completely re…

The factories went bankrupt because of corruption as far as I know. An often cited scheme in the press was that the management will buy raw materials at higher than normal prices and sell the products at low prices, of course in exchange for bribes. Other sectors of the economy were similarly brought down in various ways. Trade was not done only with the Eastern Bloc, so you can’t blame everything on the loss of thos…

The economy was organised around USSR and suddenly it didn't made sense anymore once USSR was gone. The corruption on epic scale happened when restructuring was going on. The restructuring had to happen, but of course it shouldn't have had been handled that bad.

Re: The Bulgarian Computer's Global Reach: On Victor Petrov's "Balkan Cyberia"

#59

Post by mrtksn »

thriftwy wrote: post #53
mrtksn wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If everything was great why people brought down the system? Is it maybe because everything worked thanks to having customer(the USSR) for ideological reasons and not because it was actually competitive or good? Maybe this was the reason why the factories and everything shut down when USSR was gone? IMHO the ideological markets are very dangerous, gives you the wrong feedback on your output and makes you completely re…

> Bulgaria might have been compelled to send the troops for the invasions USSR might have started List of countries which happily participated in USA's invasion of Iraq wants to say hello!

Hello to the list too. How many Bulgarians died in Iraq? That would be 13 soldiers. Unfortunate but that's really not the same as being a tool of an empire.

The American way works the other way around, they usually are for free market until you sell its enemies weapons or help finance the war.

They also do questionable things but IMHO it's a much better deal overall.

Re: The Bulgarian Computer's Global Reach: On Victor Petrov's "Balkan Cyberia"

#60

Post by malkia »

mrtksn wrote: post #50
farmdve wrote: post #46

Before the 90s, Bulgaria was manufacturing almost everything, it had its problems, but it functioned from what we've been told. Afterwards every single factory was shuttered, sold to individuals for the equivalent of a dollar. After the borders were opened up, we experienced a huge outflow and all the smart people left. We are now a fast shrinking country, poor and even today the political scene is a joke.

If everything was great why people brought down the system? Is it maybe because everything worked thanks to having customer(the USSR) for ideological reasons and not because it was actually competitive or good? Maybe this was the reason why the factories and everything shut down when USSR was gone? IMHO the ideological markets are very dangerous, gives you the wrong feedback on your output and makes you completely re…

It was inevitable, but also this was a factor - https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2016/01/21/oil-pric...
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