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SFMTA's train system running on floppy disks; city fears 'catastrophic failure'

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Re: SFMTA's train system running on floppy disks; city fears 'catastrophic failure'

#51

Post by rangestransform »

nerdjon wrote: post #10

Well... I feel slightly better about Boston constantly pushing back being able to use our phones as tickets after seeing the timeline for the transition and how just that they are still doing this. What is it about public transit in the US that it is so... bad? Inadequate funding seems to be the easy one, but the MBTA (Boston) doesn't even handle the funds it has well. Yeah it needs more funding but there is also jus…

other countries don't treat public transit as a jobs program

other cities (in the east, with the best public transit) don't let unions grab the entire city by the balls

government employees in other cities aren't as hellbent on extracting their pound of flesh from the taxpayer

Re: SFMTA's train system running on floppy disks; city fears 'catastrophic failure'

#52

Post by rtkwe »

wongarsu wrote: post #31
anigbrowl wrote: post #18

They haven't even settled on a contractor yet? Maybe the problem here is that they're trying to write one check to fix all their problems at once instead of taking an incremental approach.

That seems to be common in US infrastructure projects. If it isn't a megaproject, is it even worth attempting? /s

I get it though, it's a nightmare getting a project through approvals so by the time you have an issue big enough to push an overhaul through it's a major project and you want to pile as many things onto it as possible because it might be a decade before you get another decent funding injection to do what should be regular maintenance.

Re: SFMTA's train system running on floppy disks; city fears 'catastrophic failure'

#54

Post by rootusrootus »

HumblyTossed wrote: post #50
abeppu wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that the agency seems not to be able to cope with change at a reasonable pace, I wonder if 1998 was just when the control system project finished, having been planned and started several years prior.

> I wonder if 1998 was just when the control system project finished, having been planned and started several years prior. Probably this. Probably they got the plans worked up in 1990, but didn't finish everything until 1998.

I'd say they must have started closer to 1980. By the time we had the 286, most PCs came with a hard drive, and 1990 was the era of the 486.

Re: SFMTA's train system running on floppy disks; city fears 'catastrophic failure'

#55

Post by jcgrillo »

perihelions wrote: post #49
Aloha wrote: post #38

I dont really see the issue? The technology works, there is a replacement outlined, there is no shortage of floppy disks - even 5 1/4 ones.

Yeah, the article reads as if the real problem is a lack of a tested system of backups. Or I don't know how else to parse this line: - "It's a question of risk. The system is currently working just fine but we know that with each increasing year risk of data degradation on the floppy disks increases and that at some point there will be a catastrophic failure." "Data degradation on the floppies" should not, by itself,…

checksums are a whole thing

Re: SFMTA's train system running on floppy disks; city fears 'catastrophic failure'

#56

Post by rtkwe »

shrubble wrote: post #42

Does no one at the organization know what a GoTek FlashFloppy is? Sounds like they are using the floppy as an excuse to push for an upgrade that has nothing to do with the floppy drives.

The entire system has reached the end of it's design life and the floppy is just the shocking bite to get people to click through. Really this is the regular replacement of an old system with a newer control system that will make the trains run better and more reliably.

Re: SFMTA's train system running on floppy disks; city fears 'catastrophic failure'

#57

Post by gojomo »

sevenseventen wrote: post #3

Can someone just ask Foone or lcamtuf to help them get it running off an internet-connected toothbrush or something? It seems like there are so many people doing complex reverse-engineering of ancient stuff _just for kicks_ that this floppy-disk issue just shouldn't require a massive project. yes, I know safety-critical systems are different. I also expect that the floppy-disk issue is just the easiest problem to exp…

The hypercompetence of tech enthusiasts and the mind-numbing idiocy & dishonesty of politial governance don't mix, so cities have to spend tens of millions with parasitic contractors for what a few clever hackers could do as a side-project.

Re: SFMTA's train system running on floppy disks; city fears 'catastrophic failure'

#58

Post by rootusrootus »

_trampeltier wrote: post #26

Floppy disks seems common in the us. Just since 2019, they don't use 8" floppys for the nuclear rockets. https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/25/20931800/usa-nuclear-8-i...

Hardly specific to the US. Lots of stodgy old institutions across the world still run on elderly hardware. If it works, it works.

Re: SFMTA's train system running on floppy disks; city fears 'catastrophic failure'

#60

Post by rtkwe »

nerdjon wrote: post #25
asdff wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think about this all the time every time I see an lcd screen in my local train stations. If people who designed them actually used transit, maybe they'd have the signs you can only see as you walk out of the station say something about the bus lines you'd transfer to, instead of when the train behind you that just departed from is set to arrive. At some stations the screens they installed don't display anything use…

I feel like almost every screen I just ignore, either it was just put there for ads or it is wrong/broken. It is now a fairly regular occurrence to have a train show up that the screen had no reference too existing a minute or two before. But yeah it feels like they were not designed or setup by people that actually use the trains and were setup by a comity thinking they know best. Maybe that is the big difference, i…

The big issue is putting those screens in isn't just a simple task, you need the entire support and switching network to be able to track individual trains which is a relatively new thing in terms of the age of many of the subway swtiching and train tacking (where those even exist) systems in the US.
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