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Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

gizmodo.com

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Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#51

Post by woodruffw »

saddist0 wrote: post #10
speff wrote: post #3

> Though it seemed completely automated, Just Walk Out relied on more than 1,000 people in India watching and labeling videos to ensure accurate checkouts. That line was unintentionally hilarious to me. Like looking inside a TV and finding a bunch of fast-working little people drawing images.

It isn't that bad an idea. Imagine that next time you are drunk, you can hire a driver who will drive you back home remotely (along with some AI to stop the car in case connection goes away).

> Imagine that next time you are drunk, you can hire a driver who will drive you back home remotely (along with some AI to stop the car in case connection goes away).

Is this satire? It doesn't seem like a fantastic idea to allow someone to remotely pilot a car over a transoceanic Internet link.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#52

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

jeffwask wrote: post #42
noodlesUK wrote: post #6

I think that the scan-as-you-shop style systems are definitely the next realistic step for grocery stores. I really like using them, as they allow me to put stuff directly into my bags as I go. I think a further improvement on a system like that would be to use the cheap RFID tech (UHF EPC) so that when you walk through the anti-theft barriers, the system knows exactly what you got, and then there's no need to scan a…

Stop and Shop (in New England) had hand scanners you could do this with 15 years ago. I have been shocked that the technology didn't spread. It was so easy to scan and bag then just plug the scanner in at checkout and pay.

Stop and Shop now has self-checkout where you have to scan and move your items one at a time into your bag, because it's doing continuous weight-based reconciliation.

So if you have six of the same yoghurt, you have to scan them and then place them in your bag one at a time. And if you have a 24 pack of sodas, you need to haul it out of your cart onto the scales as you're checking out. And if anything goes wrong (item didn't weight what the system expected; you moved the item too fast onto the scales etc) then you get a "please wait while someone helps you", which involves an employee having to come and clear the error.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#53

Post by Cheer2171 »

freedomben wrote: post #36
munk-a wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree - at a basic level if people are able to tell which products you're picking up the resolution is necessarily high enough that there's a huge creep factor. I am sometimes amazed at what companies will pursue without a glance towards common sense.

I'm a huge privacy advocate and don't think stores should track what you buy at all, so don't confuse what I say next with the is/ought fallacy. They already have perfect resolution and data retention of everything you buy at checkout time when it's scanned, plus they can verify your identity rather than have to rely on facial recognition or other things. I don't think this is any creepier than what they already do s…

The scandal where Target data scientists bragged to reporters about knowing when teenage girls are pregnant before their fathers broke in 2012, and they said they were doing it since 2002. It was based entirely on data mining purchase histories with rewards cards at the register. No fancy AI or facial recognition needed.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#54

Post by diggan »

noodlesUK wrote: post #6

I think that the scan-as-you-shop style systems are definitely the next realistic step for grocery stores. I really like using them, as they allow me to put stuff directly into my bags as I go. I think a further improvement on a system like that would be to use the cheap RFID tech (UHF EPC) so that when you walk through the anti-theft barriers, the system knows exactly what you got, and then there's no need to scan a…

> I think that the scan-as-you-shop style systems are definitely the next realistic step for grocery stores.

Scan-as-you-shop has been around for at least a decade at this point I think, at least in some parts of the world. ICA (supermarket in Sweden) been doing it for as long as I can remember, and I came across this image of the scanner being used at the store on Mediawiki: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Self_checkout_scanne... (Image uploaded 2011)

Surely this exists elsewhere too, or been judged to only work in certain contexts (like a high-trust environment like Sweden) and won't be the next realistic step.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#55

Post by weinzierl »

beardyw wrote: post #37
phh wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've had that in France for years, and noone uses that as far as I can tell. The main usage I see is mainly self checkout. Please note that I'm biased towards dense areas. We have on-the-go scanning in super stores as well, I feel it's not being used but I could be wrong

Yes, same in the UK. Most stores have scan as you shop, but most people do self checkout. I get the impression scan as you shop is seen as being a bit prissy.

As a German it is always a culture shock to see how popular self checkout is in the UK, even though I see it used more often recently in Germany too. I think Germany is about a decade behind...

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#56

Post by PodgieTar »

noodlesUK wrote: post #6

I think that the scan-as-you-shop style systems are definitely the next realistic step for grocery stores. I really like using them, as they allow me to put stuff directly into my bags as I go. I think a further improvement on a system like that would be to use the cheap RFID tech (UHF EPC) so that when you walk through the anti-theft barriers, the system knows exactly what you got, and then there's no need to scan a…

Albert Heijn does this in the Netherlands, tied to your loyalty card. You can even import your shopping list and show it on the little hand scanners. At the end, you scan your loyalty card and it shows up on the self checkout.

I think it’s great, I get to go around the shop with a little laser gun.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#57

Post by michaelt »

saddist0 wrote: post #10
speff wrote: post #3

> Though it seemed completely automated, Just Walk Out relied on more than 1,000 people in India watching and labeling videos to ensure accurate checkouts. That line was unintentionally hilarious to me. Like looking inside a TV and finding a bunch of fast-working little people drawing images.

It isn't that bad an idea. Imagine that next time you are drunk, you can hire a driver who will drive you back home remotely (along with some AI to stop the car in case connection goes away).

The grocery industry generally has pretty low margins. Wal-Mart's profit margin is 2.39%.

If you go into a grocery shop to grab lunch, spending $8 on 4 items, and they make 5 cents of profit per item? They need to run an extremely lean operation.

Or target price-insensitive customers, I suppose.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#58

Post by rchaud »

vultour wrote: post #29

Wait what? When did they reveal it's offloaded to workers in India? I remember this being touted as fully automated when it was announced, surely being watched by strangers from creepy angles would discourage a large portion of customers.

ChatGPT is also trained by the efforts of thousands of people in low income countries getting paid a pittance. We don't hear about it much because it's easier to credit a few suits at the top as harbingers of the future.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#59

Post by 4ndrewl »

jeffwask wrote: post #42
noodlesUK wrote: post #6

I think that the scan-as-you-shop style systems are definitely the next realistic step for grocery stores. I really like using them, as they allow me to put stuff directly into my bags as I go. I think a further improvement on a system like that would be to use the cheap RFID tech (UHF EPC) so that when you walk through the anti-theft barriers, the system knows exactly what you got, and then there's no need to scan a…

Stop and Shop (in New England) had hand scanners you could do this with 15 years ago. I have been shocked that the technology didn't spread. It was so easy to scan and bag then just plug the scanner in at checkout and pay.

Most of the large chain supermarkets in the UK have this, but my anecdata is that it's relatively less used that self checkoit by a ratio of 3:1

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#60

Post by shmatt »

speff wrote: post #3

> Though it seemed completely automated, Just Walk Out relied on more than 1,000 people in India watching and labeling videos to ensure accurate checkouts. That line was unintentionally hilarious to me. Like looking inside a TV and finding a bunch of fast-working little people drawing images.

i've written about this multiple times on HN and always got downvoted

I work in the CV industry and this was a very badly kept secret. There is absolutely no financially feasible way to run something like this with current CV

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