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OpenAI's comment to the NTIA on open model weights

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51–60 of 74 posts

Re: OpenAI's comment to the NTIA on open model weights

#51
post #3

> a number of nation-state cyber threat actors who were abusing our GPT-3.5-Turbo and GPT-4 models to assist in cyberoffensive operations. Not sure I buy this. Sure there was that half hearted case they blogged about. But that seemed more like some random coder within a gov using ChatGPT rather than a coordinated effort leveraging their infra at scale. Besides a nation state easily has the capability to spin up a loc…

On the other hand, nation states are also famous for having penny-pinchers write procurement rules.

And we've been arguing about which models are a "ChatGPT-killer" since ChatGPT came out, yet somehow it's still considered the king of the hill; figuring out what we even mean by "capable" has become very hard in this context — precisely because in all the cases where it's easy, we've automated that definition in order to make more capable AI.

Re: OpenAI's comment to the NTIA on open model weights

#52
post #6

My attempt at a TLDR for the piece: • The audiences are policymakers and government agencies like NTIA, the broader AI research community, and existing and potential partners/customers. • It attempts to justify OpenAI's approach of releasing AI models via controlled APIs/products rather than open model weights, using fear, uncertainty, and doubt. • It portrays OpenAI as a thoughtful steward of AI, and is designed to…

Or in other words - a three page rant with fair amount of self-affirmation and marketing blah which eventually retells the very short mantra:

No, we are already not those guys releasing their (model) weights …

Re: OpenAI's comment to the NTIA on open model weights

#53

This is just getting to be a wedge issue for me: this isn’t ok and it has to stop. It’s weekly if not daily some new godawful thing comes up. I just found about the revoked “GPT Detector” thing, that was a non-ridiculous case that the real safety people have some pull, but they took it down with precision and recall numbers you don’t take it down at. These are the villains in the story, and it’s not, like a credible…

Your understanding of society’s use of AI is not in line with reality. Your opinion that a 23% true positive rate with a 9% false positive rate is ok is not in line with general principles (not even just Western-centric) of the burden of proof of guilt. Only 23% of US adults have tried ChatGPT,[1] so to say that we live “in a world where so much AI in human writing” as you do in another comment is simply false. Even…

In fairness,

> in a world where so much AI in human writing

Is not a percentage, and also the point (I think) isn't "how many people are using it" but "how much content has each produced", which is only close to equal when a human uses it to automate the output they would have created by themselves anyway.

I do not know how many words have been written by LLMs vs. humans in the last year; as I have almost nothing to ground an estimate with, I can easily believe that humans are 3 orders of magnitude greater or lesser in output — one extreme bound due to the low price of tokens, the other extreme bound due to the high price and limited supply of hardware.

Re: OpenAI's comment to the NTIA on open model weights

#54

I was immediately reminded of Gavin Belson from Silicon Valley saying: "I don't know about you people, but I don't want to live in a world where someone else makes the world a better place better than we do." Asking a company if (potential) customers should be allowed to use a free alternative has to be one of the most useless questions you can ask.

Except, in this case, "better" should be replaced with "worse" -- because that is what AI does.

Re: OpenAI's comment to the NTIA on open model weights

#55

Closed weight LLMs are unethical forms of theft that will privatize profits on a work that includes virtually all of humanity’s digital written work and serve to ultimately heighten wealth inequality as they get more sophisticated and start eliminating jobs. The only path forward is open model weights, Sam Altman is on the wrong side of history here, and I hope he fails to convince regulators.

> The only path forward is open model weights, Sam Altman is on the wrong side of history here, and I hope he fails to convince regulators.

The third path would be an uprising against AI that would ultimately lead to an outright ban of it, a dissolution of all AI companies, and a moratorium on research on AI.

Re: OpenAI's comment to the NTIA on open model weights

#56
post #43

Disgusting abuse of the democratic process to halt scientific and technological progress in the name of making one sketchy man rich.

I agree. It's a shame the PEOPLE do not have any say in this matter. They should be able to vote also, and one of the options should be "outright ban on AI".

Re: OpenAI's comment to the NTIA on open model weights

#57
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And so it serves as yet another reminder that any corporation trying to "do good" is just the usual sociopathic anti-human bullshit doing unusually good PR.

Unfortunately that kind of generalization being inaccurate is exactly what makes this problem so difficult. Every case needs to be judged independently, but that takes a lot of time and effort that no one person individually has. A corporation is purely a legal structure. There exist people who do actually spend their time "doing good", and they too use such legal structures when that's helpful. It's unfortunate that…

My comment history has been calling Altman a menace for a minimum of a year or two, probably longer.

For a long time it got me downvotes and dirty looks. Then it was few votes and the occasional “no shit”, then it was just kind of quiet, and it’s about to be consensus.

There was a big PR campaign around him personally, and it worked as intended, and if he hadn’t gone this far this fast, it might have remained effective.

It still might.

Re: OpenAI's comment to the NTIA on open model weights

#58
Reading HN's reactions to an OpenAI statement about open weights is about as satisfying / interesting as reading an r/conservatives thread about affirmative action. The opposition is built-in by now, to the point people aren't reacting to the article at all so much as reacting to the general idea of "OpenAI says bad things I don't like". I'd wager half of the people posting here didn't even skim the article, let alone read it.

That's a shame, because OpenAI's statement makes some very interesting observations, eg:

> For instance, strengthening resilience against AI-accelerated cyberattack risks might involve providing critical infrastructure providers early access to those same AI models, so they can be used to improve cyber-defense (as in the early projects we have funded as part of the OpenAI Cybersecurity Grant Program). Strengthening resilience against AI-accelerated biological threat creation risks may involve solutions totally unrelated to AI, such as improving nucleic acid synthesis screening mechanisms (as called for in Executive Order 14110), or improving public health systems’ ability to screen for and identify new pathogen outbreaks.

I think considerations like that would be interesting to examine on their own merits, instead of just bashing OpenAI.

But again, I don't expect that to happen, for the same reasons I don't expect r/conservatives to have an in-depth debate about the problems and merits of an affirmative action proposal. Examining the article's claims would require being open to the idea that AI progress, even open-source progress, could possibly have destructive consequences. Ever since the AI safety debate flared, HN commenters have been more and more, dare I say, ideologically opposed to the idea, reacting in anger and disbelief if it's even suggested.

Anyway, I thought the article was interesting. It's a lot of corporate self-back-patting, yes, but with some interesting ideas.

Re: OpenAI's comment to the NTIA on open model weights

#60
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then watermark the output and say if they wrote it. Between a binary classifier in the age of adversarial training, and any level of watermarking, you’d be able to say which minor version printed it.

I don't think it's possible to watermark AI generated text in a way that can't be easily removed by someone who simply switches a word around or adds a typo.

Spot catches the people who can beat OpenAI on non-trivial stenography: sophisticated actors aren’t what this is about catching. They’re going to get away with some level of abuse no matter what. APTs? They can afford their own LLM programs just fine: some of them have credible quantum computing programs.

But a lot of propaganda is going to take place at the grassroots level by actors who can’t beat OpenAI, even one in decline, at breaking both watermarks and an adversarial model.

But the grand finale is of course, at this point how has OpenAI behaved like anything other than an APT itself. It’s the friendly, plucky underdog charity that’s now manipulating the process on making things illegal without involving congress.

That’s exactly how advanced actors operate: look at the xz thing.

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