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ADHD Stimulants May Increase Risk of Heart Damage in Young Adults

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Re: ADHD Stimulants May Increase Risk of Heart Damage in Young Adults

#51

Post by Swordfish12345 »

eqvinox wrote: post #48
Swordfish12345 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I ask: when you say you "tried everything and nothing worked"...was this before you knew about the existence of ADHD? The tragedy I find is that people first discover ADHD and then go straight on meds. They don't use this new realization and understanding of their condition to try to solve it without medication. And once you begin medication, your brain starts to change, and you really can't isolate whether a beh…

> May I ask: when you say you "tried everything and nothing worked"...was this before you knew about the existence of ADHD? No, this was after I knew about the existence of ADHD, and from the structure of the comments this should have been obvious to you. I was referencing my previous comment: "they throw the kitchen sink at you for about a year or two before they progressively walk you up to the more "extreme" medic…

How do you know it was enough?

Re: ADHD Stimulants May Increase Risk of Heart Damage in Young Adults

#52

Post by eqvinox »

Swordfish12345 wrote: post #50
eqvinox wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsoc.2022.81476... Written by an elementary education specialist and an unknown lecturer. No medical value. > https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2626918/ A very nice summarization paper on ADHD. You do not seem to have read the summary at the end, as it does not support your points of argument. It primarily suggests a wider approach using additional medication,…

I suggest you read the paper ( https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsoc.2022.81476 ) which you dismissed. I have found that it summarizes most of the realizations I had from my own research. Otherwise it takes too long for me to explain. Assistant professor, lecturer, reviewed by post doc. It's an article that summarizes stuff nicely referencing papers. > but does not go as far as establishing a causal relat…

My dismissing that first paper was to your benefit. It is directly contradicted by the second source you link, which quite clearly points at genetic distinctions and markers in ADHD patients. Meanwhile that first paper argues ADHD may be "unreal" because current diagnostic criteria are ambiguous, redundant and arbitrary; and how we socially build it up.

I have no idea how you reconcile that in your head, but apparently you do. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs and opinions.

> There is no biomarker or imagery that can diagnose the condition successfully.

This, equally, is contradicted by the 2nd paper you link. It seems it's just too expensive (for the time being) to use DNA analysis in ADHD diagnostics.

Anyway, this discussion is no longer productive. These arguments are made, researched, exchanged, and resolved between medical experts. You are at odds with the current consensus of the medical community. It is your right and privilege to have your own well-researched opinion on this topic. However, when you then take this and argue for changes affecting a whole bunch of people across all of society, it becomes my right to call you out for the conflict of your opinion vs. medical consensus. I can see quite clearly why you believe "It is now practically forbidden to criticize anything related with ADHD." You expect people to agree with you, and you argue these things even in the face of people negatively affected by it.

You have two choices here. Study medicine (or pharmacology, or biochemistry), go into this field, and move the consensus. Or consider your belief exactly that: a belief, researched as it may be, that is still likely to be wrong because consensus is against you.

Sure, consensus is sometimes wrong. The way you're going about it is not how you change it, it's how you make an ass of yourself.

Re: ADHD Stimulants May Increase Risk of Heart Damage in Young Adults

#53

Post by eqvinox »

Swordfish12345 wrote: post #51
eqvinox wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> May I ask: when you say you "tried everything and nothing worked"...was this before you knew about the existence of ADHD? No, this was after I knew about the existence of ADHD, and from the structure of the comments this should have been obvious to you. I was referencing my previous comment: "they throw the kitchen sink at you for about a year or two before they progressively walk you up to the more "extreme" medic…

How do you know it was enough?

Wow, dude, just wow.

Re: ADHD Stimulants May Increase Risk of Heart Damage in Young Adults

#54

Post by eqvinox »

throwaway11460 wrote: post #35
anemoiac wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "Oh, well everyone has a little bit of ADHD..." opinion seems to be fairly popular, perhaps due to the increasing ubiquity of digital distractions we all encounter daily, but reading just a small amount of actual research led me to the conclusion that this is completely misguided and "real" ADHD (whatever that is) has likely left a significant amount of its victims dead, in prison, or terminally drug-addicted. On…

Haha yeah, it's funny. I take a little stimulant and suddenly the insatiable urge to go over 200 km/h is completely gone, I don't scream at anyone, I don't rage at all any more. Now I just wait a little and listen to my music, no problem at all. The funniest thing is how it all comes back once I'm 2 days off the meds, though.

Yeah I produced 3 car accidents off-meds. The last of them almost killed my girlfriend at the time. Since that, I don't drive off-meds anymore (and have had no further issues). Sadly, the authorities would rather have the reverse, with driving under the influence of MPH being in a legal grey zone (at least where I live.) This IMHO needs to be fixed ASAP.

Re: ADHD Stimulants May Increase Risk of Heart Damage in Young Adults

#55

Post by Woshiwuja »

Swordfish12345 wrote: post #44
Woshiwuja wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Measuring consumption is NOT easy for someone with adhd. You are mixing different mental problems in a random garble of words that mean nothing. Also how does that not fit? its literally the same thing.

> Measuring consumption is NOT easy for someone with adhd There are ample tools like screen time. Imagine being on meds for 10 years and then realizing that what you really needed was to just block distractions more judiciously and set more deadlines. > its literally the same thing. The cause was the acute organ transplant. What is the acute cause for ADHD?

The cause for adhd is literally a disfunction of the dopamine receptors in your brain. You dont understand what adhd is like. "just block distractions lol". Like telling someone who is depressed "just be happy" or someone with anxiety "just dont worry about it".

Re: ADHD Stimulants May Increase Risk of Heart Damage in Young Adults

#57

Post by Woshiwuja »

chownie wrote: post #16
Swordfish12345 wrote: post #7

I would love to see a study on how banning social media impacts ADHD symptoms. The current wisdom is as soon as a diagnosis is made: go straight on the meds because there is minimal side-effects. So environmental modifications as treatment are not explored. Plus, once meds are involved, you now have a stimulant dependence to deal with too involving a afternoon crash, and increased anxiety, etc. Then your on anti-depr…

Parents are notoriously unreliable witnesses if you're looking out for signs of neurodivergency. It's just as likely that the symptoms aren't gone at all, they're just less visible now that they have excluded the one marker they had noticed.

Also adhd is highly hereditary. My dad probably has it too, ofc he wouldnt notice

Re: ADHD Stimulants May Increase Risk of Heart Damage in Young Adults

#58

Post by throwaway11460 »

Swordfish12345 wrote: post #41
throwaway11460 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just don't take them if you're concerned.

You could have taken this advice for the opioid epidemic, and then it still would have affected you via family/friends. We've already been through this once.

Not nearly the same thing. You're not going to get addicted to ADHD prescription stimulants unless you take much, much, much more (several orders of magnitude at least) than the prescribed dose. Not the case with opioids.

Re: ADHD Stimulants May Increase Risk of Heart Damage in Young Adults

#59

Post by throwaway11460 »

Swordfish12345 wrote: post #42
throwaway11460 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you don't develop any dependence like that. You just go back to the absolutely disfunctional state you were in before when you stop taking them. If it was anything like drug addiction then it'd go back to normal after some time - but the normal of people with ADHD is different.

> You just go back to the absolutely disfunctional state you were in before when you stop taking them. Your brain adapts by creating more dopamine transporters...meaning you need more dopamine for same effect. This happens in an effort to maintain homeostasis. There is no free dopamine unfortunately...what goes up must come down. The brain's homeostasis system is hard-wired. https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.11…

I spent 25 years of my life without medication, it crippled my life and I couldn't get anything done unless absolutely, totally hyper focused on it. I don't even have high school. I failed at every job I had even though I won national programming competitions and everyone described me as the best programmer they ever met (and said that my technical knowledge is excellent but I'm just not doing the job so they have to let me go). I was homeless for some short time.

Up until I got diagnosed and medicated. First I had therapies, nothing. Then I had non-stimulant medication - worked but I had terrible side effects. Now I'm on methylphenidate and everything works like clockwork now.

Frankly I don't care about the theory behind it. It turned my life around and that's all I need to know.

Re: ADHD Stimulants May Increase Risk of Heart Damage in Young Adults

#60

Post by eqvinox »

Woshiwuja wrote: post #56
eqvinox wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, dude, just wow.

He doesnt understand. For him its just "quit tiktok lul". kinda embarassing

Anything not matching the world view is clearly somehow wrong. Very impressive reality distortion field there. Except it's scary because it's the same mechanic that also makes people vote for populists that throw "great" rhetoric but act against their interests.

Funny thing is that when I got my ADHD diagnosis, it was, for adults, very "fresh" conceptually. Which means everything got reviewed, retested, rechecked multiple times. Two professors and several doctors were involved. I'm pretty sure even medical professionals would find it hard to poke holes in either my diagnosis or treatment plan. I even got to be a "demo patient" for medical students multiple times, for them to learn.

But, they read a bunch of papers (without training in the field), so clearly they know better, eh?

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