Live data from Hacker News

Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

theguardian.com

51–60 of 225 posts

Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#51

I still don't understand how a country can grant extradition of a non US citizen to the USA for "espionage". Every country is potentially spying on every other country and it doesn't even matter if they are supposed to be allies or enemies. The only limits are resources.

Arguably, the rest of the "free world" can be seen as provinces of an American Empire with their independence. From that perspective, the Assange extradition makes perfect sense.

This isn't as crazy as it sounds because the Roman Empire had provinces which were technically "independent" monarchies aligned with Rome. Most famously, Egypt under Cleopatra and Judea under Herod.

Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#52
post #23

Court documents can be found here: https://www.judiciary.uk/judgments/assange-v-government-of-t... Paragraph 210 of the judgment argues why the US's kidnapping/assassination plot is not a valid ground for refusing the extradition: > [...] On the face of the allegations (on the evidence before the judge and the fresh evidence) the contemplation of extreme measures against the applicant (whether poisoning for example o…

"we better hand this guy over to the mafia before they kill him".

Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#53
post #28

I still don't understand how a country can grant extradition of a non US citizen to the USA for "espionage". Every country is potentially spying on every other country and it doesn't even matter if they are supposed to be allies or enemies. The only limits are resources.

I suspect part of the answer is that most or all countries regard leading information to the the public to be far worse than leaking it to other countries. > Every country is potentially spying on every other country and it doesn't even matter if they are supposed to be allies or enemies. Very true. The UK spying on Belgium and the US spying on Germany come to mind., but that is "business as usual" and no one expects…

Espionage and disclosure are two different things.

Espionage is expected and deterred as possible but because everyone has spies everyone tends to play nice when they get caught, because they don’t want their own agents mistreated.

Disclosure, on the other hand, threatens the power structure of all players.

People need to understand that the every person is meant to be firmly under the foot of the ruling class, and understanding the mechanisms by which this is accomplished is verboten. The excuses range from “what about the children” to “national security” but the goal is the same - maintaining a healthy imbalance of information and power.

Anything that significantly threatens that imbalance will be met with extreme prejudice. JA overplayed his hand and underestimated the willingness of those involved to absorb casualties in order to stem the proliferation of infrastructure which might work against that treasured monopoly of coercion.

Encryption, distributed systems, anonymous networks, and related technologies are the only effective means to provide a counter to the asymmetric threats that endanger our personal agency.

These technologies are much more important to a free society than any possible harm that they may facilitate. Those harms existed before the internet, and will not go away if they are made slightly more difficult.

The ability to pervasively maintain an efficiently functioning surveillance state requires the internet, and P/A technologies are critical to countering the efficiency of this capability.

Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#54
post #23

Court documents can be found here: https://www.judiciary.uk/judgments/assange-v-government-of-t... Paragraph 210 of the judgment argues why the US's kidnapping/assassination plot is not a valid ground for refusing the extradition: > [...] On the face of the allegations (on the evidence before the judge and the fresh evidence) the contemplation of extreme measures against the applicant (whether poisoning for example o…

What an utterly absurd judgment, that should have no place on a free society. They have a literal kidnapping/assassination plot, and yet the Judge considers it all above board and that it doesn't show any prejudice.

[flagged]

Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#55
post #37

I still don't understand how a country can grant extradition of a non US citizen to the USA for "espionage". Every country is potentially spying on every other country and it doesn't even matter if they are supposed to be allies or enemies. The only limits are resources.

That's kind of the point. Assange wasn't acting on behalf of his country. If he was, there'd be much less of an issue. I think it's a miscarriage of justice that Assange is just sitting in jail. At the same time, his defenders don't admit that he solicited and provided technical assistance to Americans who expressed interest in stealing secrets. Plus he's almost certainly a creep. The condom-removal allegations are v…

Condom removal?

Edit: I see the law is catching up there: https://apnews.com/article/health-crime-california-gavin-new...

Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#56

I still don't understand how a country can grant extradition of a non US citizen to the USA for "espionage". Every country is potentially spying on every other country and it doesn't even matter if they are supposed to be allies or enemies. The only limits are resources.

It's a complex legal matter and nobody involved is in any rush to make hasty decisions, because they may impact future extradition requests. Speaking of the future, intentional or not, Assange's case has a freezing effect on people who might be thinking of sharing secrets. That's already a win for those who don't want secrets to be shared with the public.

>Speaking of the future, intentional or not, Assange's case has a freezing effect on people who might be thinking of sharing secrets

Saying Assange "shared" secrets seems incorrect. Manning shared secrets with Assange so that Assange could publish them.

Punishing Manning surely scared those considering sharing secrets. Punishing Assange would frighten those considering publishing secrets, something the US has generally been unable to freely do.

Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#57
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that the US has turned itself into an unreliable defense partner, not sure why they wouldn't stick to German law in Germany, not like the government can just bypass the courts. Also, if a hypothetical US pipeline had been attacked by a large nuclear armed adversary, pretty sure that country would still be on the map...

> Also, if a hypothetical US pipeline had been attacked by a large nuclear armed adversary, pretty sure that country would still be on the map... Doesn't have to be the same country. There is a bit of history in recent times; US went in to Afghanistan to find Osama and Iraq to find WMD. Turned out both were only to be found in Pakistan.

I'd say by who is in charge in Afghanistan now again, the place is still on the map.

Nuclear weapons in Pakistan isn't anything new (but the US was surprised quite a while back when Pakistan tested a fusion weapon).

Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that's unlikely to happen, US have enough leverage to extradite anyone they want

Yeah, once you start kidnapping your allies citizens openly, a lot less goodwill will be returned. And the US isn't powerful enough to just bully the rest of the world without repercussions.

Again, it isn’t about goodwill. The US totally dominates these countries and its times like this where its citizens really see that.

Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#59
post #49

Given that the US is not a signatory to several international treaties and regularly employs solitary confinement, which is internationally considered as a form of torture, there is a humanitarian argument against the extradition. The desire to comply with the extradition request seems to be more about politics (i.e. maintaining good relationships with the US) than the rule of law. The treatment of Manning should be…

[flagged]
Post reply on HN