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EU rejects Apple's changes: Company could be fined 10% of global turnover

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Re: EU rejects Apple's changes: Company could be fined 10% of global turnover

#51

Post by gambiting »

FredPret wrote: post #45
gambiting wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand - using apple products is some kind of blessing from the gods and without them Europe is now going to be in "technological isolation"? Get real for a second - apple devices are luxury and if Apple pulled out of EU tomorrow the only losing side in that equation would be apple. No idea why we'd be in economic isolation because of that either. Is our trading of general goods with US reliant on Europea…

Each little anti-business decision is a multiplier on the previous one. For a long time, nothing happens. Next thing you know, your economy is half the size it could have been. About 15 years ago, the US and EU economies were actually the same size . Since then, the US almost doubled, and the EU is literally stuck at the same size. Why should Europeans be so much worse off? Surely they deserve better - more money, mo…

>>Furthermore, this is clearly part of a larger pattern of targeting big US tech companies.

Because big US tech companies are playing fast and lose with the consumer rights and privacy of our data that we as Europeans have come to expect. If a German or French company was breaking the rules in that way I would also expect them to be treated the exact same way and fined into oblivion.

>>This isn't endearing the EU to business and political leaders in the US.

I will take protection of consumers over "endearing" ourselves to businesses and political leaders in the US. Your business practices do not trump our expectations as society - but you wouldn't expect any less from foreign companies doing business in US, so why is this surprising? US is constantly introducing tariffs regulations and fines for foreign companies doing business on its soil, because you want foreign business to play by your rules. But when someone does it to you it's suddenly going to collapse our economy?

>>Surely they deserve better

They do, that's the entire point.

Re: EU rejects Apple's changes: Company could be fined 10% of global turnover

#53

Post by kutenai »

Alifatisk wrote: post #50
kutenai wrote: post #41

[flagged]

Did you really provide statistics from perplexity.ai? An LLM?

I did. Perplexity updates daily. Better than "googling" these days. At least I attributed it. Don't like the stats, find better ones, or contradicting ones.

Re: EU rejects Apple's changes: Company could be fined 10% of global turnover

#55

Post by FredPret »

imacomputer wrote: post #34
FredPret wrote: post #14

Apple’s revenue was over 100B last quarter ( https://valustox.com/AAPL ) and about 380B over the past four quarters. Looks like they make about 30% of that in Europe. Sounds like about 80% of their headaches come from Europe. If they get fined 10% of 380B, and the EU becomes ever more fine-happy, it will at one point make sense to simply shut down in Europe. As an aside, it’s baffling to me why an aging continent wit…

Maybe they will pull out of Europe then, but laws are laws and businesses must comply. Whether those lose make sense is another issue. > As an aside, it’s baffling to me why an aging continent with a sluggish economy would want to start a trade war with its only friend. This isn't a trade war, there is no competition the EU is trying to bolster. The way I see it they are just being assertive about their market rules,…

You have to out-invent, out-sell, and out-implement your economic rivals. You can't out-regulate them, because if you create an economic island with nothing but strict regulations, there's no strong incentive for the rest of the world to connect with that island.

Now, if EU regulations created an amazing place to live where everybody's inventing and implementing the future, that would be great. (And the EU does have lots of common-sense regulations with a high return on investment). The best way to set the tone of the future is to build it yourself, not complain about what someone else built.

Re: EU rejects Apple's changes: Company could be fined 10% of global turnover

#56

Post by gambiting »

zooq_ai wrote: post #48
gambiting wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Yes, if we want to protect their sorry assess from Putin or something, they better come to the table with compromises. Is this what you think this is about? >>Like I said, this is what great leadership is working to the benefit of both countries. What do you mean? What leadership exactly are you talking about? Right now you have a senile grandpa in charge, and you're advocating replacing it with another senile gran…

The problem with arguing with non-moderates is, they absolutely can't get facts right https://think.ing.com/snaps/german-economy-still-stuck-in-re... https://think.ing.com/snaps/france-stagnation-continues/

My apologies, indeed Germany is still in recession(France isn't, so I'm not sure why you linked that). I was looking at the overal figure that shows EU as a whole isn't in a recession, as you said "EU is still mired in one". So I guess you also don't get your facts straight? Or is it just a slip of the tongue?

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/jan/30/eurozone-re...

Anyway, are you going to address any other of my points, or has this ended the discussion for you already?

>>The problem with arguing with non-moderates

Clearly you've chosen a label for me in your head, so I guess we're done?

Re: EU rejects Apple's changes: Company could be fined 10% of global turnover

#57

Post by kutenai »

Estimated annual sales of iPhones in EU are about 12.4M phones in Q4 2023. If you just do quick math, that is 49.6M phones/year. If you pick an ASP of $800 (??) then that would be about $39.7B annual Gross sales.

If EU actually tried to get that money, Apple would have to just halt all sales of iPhones in EU.

Now, maybe that's what the EU really wants. Are there some bitter former Nokia execs on the EU panel?????

Re: EU rejects Apple's changes: Company could be fined 10% of global turnover

#58

Post by FredPret »

gambiting wrote: post #51
FredPret wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Each little anti-business decision is a multiplier on the previous one. For a long time, nothing happens. Next thing you know, your economy is half the size it could have been. About 15 years ago, the US and EU economies were actually the same size . Since then, the US almost doubled, and the EU is literally stuck at the same size. Why should Europeans be so much worse off? Surely they deserve better - more money, mo…

>>Furthermore, this is clearly part of a larger pattern of targeting big US tech companies. Because big US tech companies are playing fast and lose with the consumer rights and privacy of our data that we as Europeans have come to expect. If a German or French company was breaking the rules in that way I would also expect them to be treated the exact same way and fined into oblivion. >>This isn't endearing the EU to…

This is completely fair - you have to play by the local rules to be in that economy. But my point is that if those rules become really onerous, then people might calculate that it's better to not play. The best thing is to be the one who invents a new industry, but from over here it seems the big focus over there is not innovation, but regulation.

I'm not saying the European economy would ever collapse, I'm saying it suffers from things like this. It's good now, but could have been wonderful.

Re: EU rejects Apple's changes: Company could be fined 10% of global turnover

#59

Post by eigenspace »

Jensson wrote: post #25
eigenspace wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn’t even malicious compliance, because they didnt even come close to complying . The Core Technology Fee is such a clear violation violation of the DMA rules.

I wonder how that meeting went? Exec: So, how can we enforce a fee while complying with DMA? Lawyer: We can't, DMA requires it to be open. Exec: Are you sure? If you can't find a way around this you are fired! Lawyer: Erm, of course there is a way!!!!

“Maybe if we insist loudly enough that we complied, they wont bother checking?”
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