Live data from Hacker News

What happens to Google Maps when tectonic plates move? (2020)

nautil.us

51–60 of 84 posts

Re: What happens to Google Maps when tectonic plates move? (2020)

#51
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In their defense, the tectonic plates will have moved a __lot__ before you can expect to get any response from Google support.

Those will be interesting patch notes for google maps "we removed most of the gulf islands, part of BC, Washington, Oregon, and California" ...

At least that's guaranteed to be extremely far in the future.

Vs. "we removed Naples, and most other south-central Italian cities, due to the recent VEI 8 eruption of the Campe Flegree caldera complex...".

Re: What happens to Google Maps when tectonic plates move? (2020)

#52
Fun facts I remember from looking into this in university some 9 years ago:

It’s not only the sideways movement of plates that causes a shift.

WGS 84 and other reference systems work with an underlying ellipsoid reference model. This ellipsoid is chosen to approximate the earth surface but it’s a simple shape and as such can’t account well for things like mountains and other irregularities in the shape of the earth.

Not only does that mean that your position on a mountain is less accurate, it also means that it becomes less accurate over time due to mountains growing.

These of course are tiny numbers so compared to a few cm shift of the plates it is nothing.

Another fun fact is that the ellipsoid also grows more inaccurate over time due to the earth rotating around a fixed axis.

The rotational force slowly causes the earth to flatten at the top and bottom (where the poles are) and to widen in the middle.

This too I assume is negligible

Speaking of ellipsoid, today I think it is measured via satellite. But in the past things had to be done by hand and were more local in nature. There’s a lot of history here as well since mapping has always been a very important task for governments.

So today in a lot of places a lot of data is still based on systems other than wgs84. Either because it’s historical data (e.g. property boundaries before gps was invented), or because they use a more localized reference system including a more localized ellipsoid that better matches specific country or state needs.

Perhaps one day we will use a big world wide look up table instead of a mathematical representation of the earth shape.

What I did at university was to compare a Germany-wide lookup grid with the mathematical approach of a Germany-wide reference system.

This lookup grid was created by a state agency and was more accurate because it could include more localized reference systems. In technical terms think of this as a pre calculation where each state can choose its most accurate method and then the results are put together into a country wide lookup table.

Last fun fact: The result of this comparison showed that the difference of a German-wide reference system compared to this collection of state-wide reference systems is up to four meters.

Edit: removed word inaccuracy, added difference. It’s all relative. What it mostly shows is that when working with geo data you need to know what source and what target reference systems to use. Otherwise things break

Re: What happens to Google Maps when tectonic plates move? (2020)

#53
For those looking for a clearer standard it's the International Terrestrial Reference System and Frame [0]. The better datums in use today are tied to a particular year (epoch) reference frame of this.

For instance Australia's GDA2020 [1] is based on ITRF2014 at epoch 2020.0. It replaced GDA94 which was based on ITRF1992 at epoch 1994.0. The difference is around 1.8 metres

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Terrestrial_Re...

[1] https://www.ga.gov.au/scientific-topics/positioning-navigati...

Re: What happens to Google Maps when tectonic plates move? (2020)

#54
I’ll have to add this to my long list of technical problems when people request a teleporting super power.

Some related problems are the planet’s location in orbit / the solar system’s location relative to the entire universe and how landscape changes over time (trees/towns/mountains/rivers appearing and disappearing).

On another related note, it’s worth noting that the ability to pause time is a universe-ending super weapon. Even if it worked like you intended, you wouldn’t be able to use any senses or breathe without moving.

Similarly, super speed would cause every human movement to have deadly force. You would go insane from the relatively slow action of everything operating at standard speed. TV might be hours per frame instead of frames per second, with incomprehensible audio to match.

Re: What happens to Google Maps when tectonic plates move? (2020)

#55
post #40

I often think about a scifi story where after X million years, somehow familiar humanity survives, and two plates containing land with VERY different natural flora and fauna approach each other - for example, california, home of many native plant defenders, and australia. As they get closer than 50 miles, news would start to mention making sure not to cross-transplant animals and plants. Under 20 miles, the wind and…

Humanity won't be alive by that time. It's a interesting setting to explore in fiction, but has no chance of becoming reality.

That’s kind of misanthropic, talking in absolute terms. I could agree in terms of low possibilities but certainly not absolutes. I feel it does a disservice to the few who actually come up with genius solutions to problems humanity faces and the many who dedicate their lives to solving them too.

Re: What happens to Google Maps when tectonic plates move? (2020)

#56
post #54

I’ll have to add this to my long list of technical problems when people request a teleporting super power. Some related problems are the planet’s location in orbit / the solar system’s location relative to the entire universe and how landscape changes over time (trees/towns/mountains/rivers appearing and disappearing). On another related note, it’s worth noting that the ability to pause time is a universe-ending supe…

In the book Treason, the author explores that a tad: a character can make a time bubble around them, effectively freezing others. At one point, the character is being choked, freezes time, opens the assailant's hands and ducks out. When the bubble pops, in the frame of reference for the assailant, his hands moved too fast, shattering bone and destroying tissue. Read that decades ago as a kid and it was illuminating on the practical problems of time alteration

Re: What happens to Google Maps when tectonic plates move? (2020)

#58
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And on fixed surveying markers around the globe. You'll see them hither and yon, but my favorite is the miniature Washington Monument buried next to the real one.

For anyone curious about the buried mini-monument: https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/washington-mini-monument

Thank you for turning me on to Atlas Obscura! I downloaded the app, and have already marked several places I want to visit, and others that I've been to. Looking forward to working with it more!

I happened to have been in Thailand recently, and came across these statues holding up traffic lights. I found it fascinating that a city council would devote resources to something like this. I'm looking forward to seeing other treasures that Atlas Obscura has.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/krabi-traffic-lights

Re: What happens to Google Maps when tectonic plates move? (2020)

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... what's the origin, when the entire surface of the Earth is sliding around?

From the article: > WGS 84 is a global standard tied to no one plate. In essence, it is fixed to Earth’s deep interior. Those drift vectors are based on GPS, which the article also says relies on WGS 84z

> it is fixed to Earth’s deep interior

Which is molten and also not static?

Re: What happens to Google Maps when tectonic plates move? (2020)

#60
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And on fixed surveying markers around the globe. You'll see them hither and yon, but my favorite is the miniature Washington Monument buried next to the real one.

For anyone curious about the buried mini-monument: https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/washington-mini-monument

That's gonna be a trip for archaeologists in a few thousand years.
Post reply on HN