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EU Parliament commitee approves cash cap and ban on anonymous crypto payments

patrick-breyer.de

51–60 of 83 posts

Re: EU Parliament commitee approves cash cap and ban on anonymous crypto payments

#51

[flagged]

I like to pick on them for this too, but it doesn't bother me as much as the apologists who say things like "this doesn't affect most people, you'll still be able to do what you do." I hear "it's not boiling the frog. It's no big deal if the Dutch government keeps records of peoples religion." Europeans trust governments way too much, which is crazy seeing their history, it's almost like they're domesticated. Really bizarre to me.

Re: EU Parliament commitee approves cash cap and ban on anonymous crypto payments

#52
post #46

> More than 90% of responding citizens spoke out against such a step. It was a web survey with fairly low numbers: 30,317 in total, which is very little for all of the EU.[1] And of course the results of this will be biased towards people who object to this. If there had been a meaningful number of respondents then it might be a signal of sorts, but as it stands with 28,784 people protesting this is completely meanin…

I'm Irish, usually pretty clued in on things. But had no idea this was actually being put through. (I suspected it would be eventually) I would definitely be objecting.

Sure. And maybe a majority of EU citizens would object. But that survey doesn't prove anything of the sort, and therefore is not worth quoting, and it's a bad look that it is, because the way the article phrased it now is misleading. Let's be real: 28,784 people objecting to a law in an online survey is a failed protest. A spectacular failure. Such a failure that I would not have cited it at all. Calling this "a great public outcry" is such a misrepresentation that I find it hard to not just call it a brazen lie.

And it also means I can't really trust this person, because if he's misrepresenting this, then what else is he misrepresenting? ---

For what it's worth, personally I don't really object to reasonably limits but feel this should be up to the member states and not the EU, so I would object to this EU law. Ireland already has the requirement for a check for cash payments over €10k for example. That seems fine to me.

When it comes to laws details matter, as the recent Irish referenda showed. Not many people really objected to the general idea of the thing, but they did against the specifics. The specifics for what makes sense can differ per member state, and opinions differ quite a lot by member state as well. What makes sense in Germany may not make sense in Bulgaria.

Re: EU Parliament commitee approves cash cap and ban on anonymous crypto payments

#54
post #46

> More than 90% of responding citizens spoke out against such a step. It was a web survey with fairly low numbers: 30,317 in total, which is very little for all of the EU.[1] And of course the results of this will be biased towards people who object to this. If there had been a meaningful number of respondents then it might be a signal of sorts, but as it stands with 28,784 people protesting this is completely meanin…

National threshold can be lower. France has banned cash payments over 1000 EUR.

Re: EU Parliament commitee approves cash cap and ban on anonymous crypto payments

#55
post #34
post #24

The cash limit now is like 5k euros. It sucks but the new cap is outrageous.

I'm a big fan of anonymous payments as a component of a resilient democracy, but to me, there's an amount cap where the tradeoff starts getting skewed from that to facilitating money laundering, tax evasion and other bad things. I can imagine dozens of good use cases for If there's real demand for it, I think we should come up with a technical solution that e.g. provides one-sided privacy like GNU Taler (taxation usu…

It’s important to remember that money-laundering is a secondary crime. There is always an underlying crime, and money laundering is just its effect. Thus, anti-money laundering do not solve or prevent any crime (crime has already happened). With over reaching AML regime there is a danger that it is used against political opposition, like it is already happening.

AML is a very convinient tool for anyone who wants to abuse power.

India: India throws another opposition leader in jail as elections loom https://www.economist.com/asia/2024/03/22/india-throws-anoth... from The Economist

Hungary: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53093117

Plus Russia

Plus various African countries

Etc.

Re: EU Parliament commitee approves cash cap and ban on anonymous crypto payments

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if payment processors don't like what you want to sell, even when it is legal?

Tough luck. Doesn’t justify a huge avenue of money laundering of whatever is possible

Yeah, it actually does. Societies cannot be left to the whims of privately owned payment processors that depend on the 'public sentiment' and not the actual laws to make their policies to protect their stock value.

If every government guaranteed an online payment system that 100% worked for all legal purposes, you'd have point. There's no such thing. The entire digital payment system is left to private feudal lords to control as they please.

Re: EU Parliament commitee approves cash cap and ban on anonymous crypto payments

#59
post #47
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, limits like this are never, ever raised. 40 years ago Canada got rid of the $1000 and $500 note. In all that time, the idea of bringing the $500 back has never been floated. Yet soon, $100 will be worth $20 back then. I already find myself using $100s all the time, I used to fill my car for $25 in the 80s, now it's $80. Groceries are the same, I used to buy $30 per week, now it's over $100. As time prog…

I carried wads of cash when I lived in Indonesia, because card acceptance is so unreliable it's easier to just pay by cash. Bills of 100,000 (~€6.50) are the largest, and while prices are lower than in Europe or Canada, they're not necessarily that much lower for a lot of things. It's a bit awkward, but doable I guess shrug . I paid 6 million in cash for my scooter, and you can imagine what that looked like. Upshot i…

Hah! I know this feeling, but only because I'm a bit of an asshat.

I friend lent me $2000 back in the day, so I went to the bank, and got 400 $5 bills. It actually felt empowering, and my friend even had a great time of it.

Yet it wasn't $6M, which just feels like a big number... no matter what the currency.

Re: EU Parliament commitee approves cash cap and ban on anonymous crypto payments

#60

> Anonymous cash payments over €3,000 will be banned in commercial transactions. Cash payments over €10,000 will even be completely banned in business transactions. And anonymous payments in cryptocurrencies to wallets operated by providers (hosted wallets) will be prohibited even for minimum amounts without a threshold. For the regular person, there is no issue here. Cash is still fine, anonymous payments are possib…

What if payment processors don't like what you want to sell, even when it is legal?

If a handful of payment processors can decide who can get money or not, it sounds like you need laws to force them to be neutral. Imagine if you couldn't put a truck on a road because the road is owned by someone that doesn't like your business!
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