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Speedometer 3.0: A shared browser benchmark for web application responsiveness

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Re: Speedometer 3.0: A shared browser benchmark for web application responsiveness

#51
post #31
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the other hand, premature optimization is the root of all evil. The web ecosystem is extremely mature and widely used. The workloads are fairly well understood. It is a magic unit, but the factors that go into it have a lot of thought from real-world scenarios. Bringing up "premature optimization" is completely irrelevant because that's not what this is, it's about as far as you can get from that.

> that's not what this is, it's about as far as you can get from that. I don't know what it is. How exactly does the score relate to the experience of the web browser user? I'm a browser extension developer, and I've occasionally had people ask me about Speedometer scores, but I have no idea what they're supposed to mean or what to tell these people.

(I work on SpiderMonkey.)

Benchmarking is hard. It is very easy to write a benchmark where improving your score does not improve real-world performance, and over time even a good benchmark will become less useful as the important improvements are all made. This V8 blog post about Octane is a good description of some of the issues: https://v8.dev/blog/retiring-octane

Speedometer 3, in my experience, is the least bad browser benchmark. It hits code that we know from independent evidence is important for real-world performance. We've been targeting our performance work at Speedometer 3 for the last year, and we've seen good results. My favourite example: a few years ago, we decided that initial pageload performance was our performance priority for the year, and we spent some time trying to optimize for that. Speedometer 3 is not primarily a pageload benchmark. Nevertheless, our pageload telemetry improved more from targeting Speedometer 3 than it did when we were deliberately targeting pageload. (See the pretty graphs here: https://hacks.mozilla.org/2023/10/down-and-to-the-right-fire...) This is the advantage of having a good benchmark; it speeds up the iterative cycle of identifying a potential issue, writing a patch, and evaluating the results.

Re: Speedometer 3.0: A shared browser benchmark for web application responsiveness

#52
post #25

On Firefox mobile I got a score of 3. So while Firefox is now super fast the performance of webapps might still be very bad on mobile. And I think this applies to all modern browsers: they are fast at rendering very slow webapps and websites.

Approx 6.3 and 6.7 in chrome and Firefox respectively on my low-end Pixel 6a

Re: Speedometer 3.0: A shared browser benchmark for web application responsiveness

#53
post #45

Try it here: https://browserbench.org/Speedometer3.0/ Very unscientific results using a Mac Studio - Chrome: 20.4, Safari: 17.9, Firefox: 20.1. Safari on an iPhone 13 Pro Max - 16.5.

What Safari version are you using? For me, with 17.4, Safari is ahead of Chrome and Firefox, though it is close if you use dev channel.

macOS 14.4 for the Mac Studio tests, and iOS 17.4 for the Safari-on-iOS test.

Re: Speedometer 3.0: A shared browser benchmark for web application responsiveness

#54
post #44
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that's not what this is, it's about as far as you can get from that. I don't know what it is. How exactly does the score relate to the experience of the web browser user? I'm a browser extension developer, and I've occasionally had people ask me about Speedometer scores, but I have no idea what they're supposed to mean or what to tell these people.

They say something about the speed of the browser, so it doesn't really make sense to ask extension developers about it, I don't think. Possibly that your extension might make the browser slower, so you could compare scores with and without the extension and see whether it negatively affects performance? (Although I'm not sure it can necessarily tell you anything about to what extent it affects performance, only that…

> Although I'm not sure it can necessarily tell you anything about to what extent it affects performance

Exactly.

Re: Speedometer 3.0: A shared browser benchmark for web application responsiveness

#55
post #48
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that's not what this is, it's about as far as you can get from that. I don't know what it is. How exactly does the score relate to the experience of the web browser user? I'm a browser extension developer, and I've occasionally had people ask me about Speedometer scores, but I have no idea what they're supposed to mean or what to tell these people.

Speedometer measures web app responsiveness. Roughly, it simulates a series of user operations on web apps built with various frameworks (as well as vanilla JS), and measures the time it takes to complete them and paint the results to the screen. The score is a rescaled version of inverse time - if it goes up, that implies the browser can handle more user operations per second, or alternately, it takes fewer millisec…

> Speedometer measures web app responsiveness.

We know that, but you haven't said anything specific about scores other than higher scores are faster, in an abstract sense, which has already been established.

Re: Speedometer 3.0: A shared browser benchmark for web application responsiveness

#57
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that's not what this is, it's about as far as you can get from that. I don't know what it is. How exactly does the score relate to the experience of the web browser user? I'm a browser extension developer, and I've occasionally had people ask me about Speedometer scores, but I have no idea what they're supposed to mean or what to tell these people.

(I work on SpiderMonkey.) Benchmarking is hard. It is very easy to write a benchmark where improving your score does not improve real-world performance, and over time even a good benchmark will become less useful as the important improvements are all made. This V8 blog post about Octane is a good description of some of the issues: https://v8.dev/blog/retiring-octane Speedometer 3, in my experience, is the least bad b…

This doesn't say anything about what the scores mean.

21 is apparently better than 20, but how much better? You could say "1 better", tautologically, but how does that relate to the real world?

Driving a car 1 mile per hour faster may be better, in a sense, but even if you drove 24 hours straight, it would only gain you 24 total miles, which is almost negligible on such a long trip. Nobody would be impressed by that difference.

Re: Speedometer 3.0: A shared browser benchmark for web application responsiveness

#58
post #50
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When that metric is "performance in real workloads", I can't imagine it ever becoming irrelevant. Just look at their new tests: > In particular, we added new tests that simulate rendering canvas and SVG charts (React Stockcharts, Chart.js, Perf Dashboard, and Observable Plot), code editing (CodeMirror), WYSIWYG editing (TipTap), and reading news sites (Next.js and Nuxt.js). > We’ve also improved the TodoMVC tests: up…

The article even links to real-world performance measurements that are completely separate from the benchmark. I have no idea what the purpose of the OP's comment was. I guess they just wanted to blurt out the first cynical thing that came to mind. Awesome contribution.

I love the fact that an honest question is met with such hostility. I knew there was a quote, but was unable to think of it well enough for a proper search. It is easier to find an answer from other people with just a shard of detail that search engine will not find as there's no SEO for the broken fragment.

I'm so happy to see this place is alive and well with the attitude to support a curious mind. What a tosser

Re: Speedometer 3.0: A shared browser benchmark for web application responsiveness

#59
post #25

On Firefox mobile I got a score of 3. So while Firefox is now super fast the performance of webapps might still be very bad on mobile. And I think this applies to all modern browsers: they are fast at rendering very slow webapps and websites.

11.6 on s23

Sounds like old hardware or some other issue

Re: Speedometer 3.0: A shared browser benchmark for web application responsiveness

#60
Why is the scale 0-140? My modern windows 10 desktop using FireFox latest gives 15.0/140 with no other programs running besides FF and discord. Surely 15 is horrible in that context? I have 1 extension, ublock origin, allowed to run on the site by default.

I have never felt performance has ever lacked, outside of a few outlier sites (youtube, facebook, twitch). But those are tightly coupled with their (crappy) implementations.

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