Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

My Guide to Software Engineering Contracting in UK

codedeepdives.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 95 posts

Re: My Guide to Software Engineering Contracting in UK

#51

Post by FirmwareBurner »

simmerup wrote: post #43
madeofpalk wrote: post #32

I did this a bunch in another country for a few years, then moved to the UK and did contracting through a limited company for a few years. But now, I've switched to a perm role and I'm enjoying it a lot more. There's a lot less admin and tax stuff I need to deal with - I can focus fully on being a developer - plus I'm working on more fulfilling projects over longer periods, and making longer-term plans. Technically I…

The problem is that house prices in this country are so damn high, I personally have to think more about maximising money income than about doing a job I’d enjoy

>The problem is that house prices in this country are so damn high,

Tell me a developed western country where that's not the same.

Re: My Guide to Software Engineering Contracting in UK

#52

Post by Silhouette »

danw1979 wrote: post #42
sirsinsalot wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to ask why they feel the need to spend on contractors. Also if you're inside IR35 then you're an employee for all intents and purposes but without the perks of a perm position. Be a business, not an employee. If you look like an employee, regardless of the legal layout, you'll be remunerated like one. Be a business. They make more money.

> If you look like an employee, regardless of the legal layout, you'll be remunerated like one. This just isn’t true. I’m currently with a FTSE100 financial institution and inside IR35 contractors make way more than perms at the same level of experience. They just don’t want headcount on their books, and still have work that needs doing, and they will pay to get it done. The problem is job security at the moment. If…

I’m currently with a FTSE100 financial institution and inside IR35 contractors make way more than perms at the same level of experience.

That may be true but it's partly because financial services companies are infamous for not paying their PAYE developers very well and having very bad working conditions. Most people who can get £750+ assignment rates via an umbrella company in the financial sector weren't going to be making sub-£100k on salary in an open market either.

Re: My Guide to Software Engineering Contracting in UK

#53

Post by toyg »

UK-Al05 wrote: post #47
mp05 wrote: post #3

> When hiring contractors it is a little like hiring a plumber. This comparison is more true than a lot of devs want to admit.

Self employed Plumbers can earn about the same as developers in the UK.

And likely don't need to master a new type of plumbing every other year.

Re: My Guide to Software Engineering Contracting in UK

#54

Post by Silhouette »

petesergeant wrote: post #48

> London software engineering day rates are around £400-500 Yikes, really? In that case they’re unchanged in the last 12-15 years.

That looks low to me but at least the openly advertised rates do seem to have taken a hit since COVID and the recent IR35 mess. Both caused a rapid and industry-wide shock that seems to have overcome the upward pressure on rates (at least for the good people) that would exist in a normal competitive market.

Re: My Guide to Software Engineering Contracting in UK

#55

Post by nerdawson »

There’s far more work inside IR35 than outside.

If you’re going to work inside, just use an umbrella. The margin they take is minimal and they make life so much easier.

If you’re going to run a limited company, you have to actually run a limited company. There are horror stories on the contractor forums where HMRC have taken a dim view of contractors whose companies are essentially run by their accountants. I can’t remember what the term associated with it is but definitely an area to be careful with.

Re: My Guide to Software Engineering Contracting in UK

#56

Post by wizzwizz4 »

aussieguy1234 wrote: post #46
madeofpalk wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe only not-so-strong developers actually believe this, after actual experience with this tech. That's just like saying that "Stackoverflow is like having a Principal Engineer around 24/7" which could be true to a degree, but it still doesn't make up for not knowing stuff.

This tells me that you haven't used GPT-4 (Thats not the free ChatGPT), or have not learned how to prompt properly. You can't ask Stack Overflow follow up questions. If the code from stack overflow does not work in the way you expect it to or the answer is not 100% accurate, you can't ask Stack Overflow to correct it. Also, its better in the hands of Senior Engineers who can evaluate answers for correctness, because…

On the contrary: the system contains a canned comment describing just how to ask a follow-up question!

> If you have a new question, please ask it by clicking the Ask Question button. Include a link to this question if it helps provide context.

And if the answers to an existing question aren't what you expect:

> You can also add a bounty to draw more attention to this question once you have enough reputation.

Re: My Guide to Software Engineering Contracting in UK

#57

Post by hankchinaski »

sirsinsalot wrote: post #8

This is good entry level stuff. As a contractor in the UK exclusively for the past 20 years tho, it doesn't paint a very full picture. The most inaccurate bit is day rates. They're underestimated by quite some way in my experience. What I would say is contracting in the UK is a game with different layers. This is the basic "coder for hire" layer. There's levels above that, with contracts spanning 10 years+ and higher…

Rates have dropped significantly over the past year or two

Re: My Guide to Software Engineering Contracting in UK

#58

Post by aaronrobinson »

Well done for getting this out there. I contracted in the UK for over 30 years and will share my experiences as they’re different to yours in a few places. I’m also well versed in IR35.

1. Job security - you’re absolutely right. In my time I had 3 contracts that lasted longer than 6 years and I left 2 of them

2. Rates - you can earn north of £1000 a day with the right skills but there’s a big difference between inside and outside. Inside needs to be much higher to compensate for the additional tax.

3. Most contractors do 6 week to 6 month contracts - see above. And if you pitch your CV to me with a string of 6 month contracts I’ll assume you weren’t extended and look for reasons

4. All the stuff about choosing your hours, holidays, not being on call is not true. As a contractor your job is to fit in with the team and help them to deliver. If you’re swanning in at 10 when perms have to be in at 9 or going off in a long weekend when there’s a deadline looming you’ll be toast pretty quickly.

5. Mortgages - you usually just need 3 years accounts but some offer less but higher rates

6. Tax arrangements - don’t get sucked into schemes that offer you low single digit tax - HMRC will make your life hell. Stay above board and hire an accountant.

7. Insurance - I never had - complete waste of money. I know in some cases you may be forced to.

Re: My Guide to Software Engineering Contracting in UK

#59

Post by wizzwizz4 »

aussieguy1234 wrote: post #31
sirsinsalot wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming the red flag relates to technical correctness. It doesn't. It's a red flag about mindset and diligence. Using genAI is fine, using it to bolster a lack of underlying knowledge as I read it, is a red flag.

Most engineers will come across something they haven't used before in most roles. Perhaps some legacy system in some dying language, for example. Previously, they might have spent hours on Google. Now, GPT-4 can unblock them in seconds. It cant replace the mindset of a human, but what I'm basically saying here is with GPT-4 and good prompting skills, you can be alot more brave when it comes to new unfamiliar tech. Th…

GPT-4 doesn't work for legacy systems in dying languages. It only "works" for things that are well-documented on the internet, or described in what books were included in the dataset.

I can't think of a situation where you'd go from spending hours on Google to being unblocked in seconds. If you're spending hours on Google, then your first dozen search queries aren't turning up the information – in which case, GPT-4 wouldn't turn up the information immediately, either! (It would say something, but it's unlikely to be based on a true story.)

Re: My Guide to Software Engineering Contracting in UK

#60

Post by dom96 »

> No benefits. No insurance, no gym, etc. But you earn a lot more so its not a huge deal, except for the pension contribution.

This really doesn't hold for many cases, and especially for the rates mentioned in this article.

Are there any somewhat reliable sites that show median and other percentile contract rates? Something like levels.fyi but for contracting rates?

Post reply on HN