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It's OK for Apple to block Firefox, but wrong when Microsoft does it

blogs.computerworld.com

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Re: It's OK for Apple to block Firefox, but wrong when Microsoft does it

#51

Post by Terretta »

wvenable wrote: post #8
deedubaya wrote: post #4

I don't think Apple blocks Firefox on iOS. Other browsers like Opera exist in the App Store, maybe Mozilla just hasn't developed FF for iOS yet? Or am I wrong?

Apple blocks all non-Safari browsers from the store. Opera Mobile doesn't exist in the App store, only Opera Mini which uses a remote server for rendering. Other browsers in the store use iOS webkit and are effectively shells around the Safari rendering engine.

What's wrong with the webkit rendering engine?

Chrome started as "effectively a shell" around webkit. As far as most end users are concerned, the difference between browsers is the UI, not the rendering engine. I use iCab on iOS for its UI and amazing feature set (including Adblock and extensions), and apprececiate the choice. In fact, it syncs with Firefox bookmarks. Atomic is also nice.

It would be very interesting to do a Firefox-like UI for iOS and see what the end user uptake would be.

Re: It's OK for Apple to block Firefox, but wrong when Microsoft does it

#52

Post by codexon »

huggyface wrote: post #18
adventureful wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being down voted because you didn't say anything. HN users hate that even more than complaining.

I'm cool with the downvotes, and appreciate the reason. All I petition is that gm's fanboy rhetoric gets the attention it deserves, which is a nuking from orbit.

It already has enough attention.He just being a subtle troll and should be ignored.

It is improbable that someone with 20 years of experience in the tech sector would be oblivious to the Netscape/IE situation unless he is one of those people that include the years he spent programming since he was 5.

Re: It's OK for Apple to block Firefox, but wrong when Microsoft does it

#53

Post by jack-r-abbit »

esrauch wrote: post #19
superuser2 wrote: post #13

Windows 8 is the natural successor to Win7 and XP. It's the next version of the most popular desktop OS in the world. As with Windows 7 and OSX, it should run whatever the hell the machine's owner wants it to. iOS is a locked-down, consistent, homogeneous user experience on specialty devices that should not be and are not marketed as replacements for computers. Apple Store employees will specifically advise against p…

> that should not be and are not marketed as replacements for computers. Interestingly several of my non-technical friends have taken on iPads as full time replacements for laptops. They only used them to read the news, facebook or watch netflix the iPad does literally everything that they previously had laptops for. > If Apple tried to tell me what I can and cannot run on OSX, I'd be pissed. I think the distinction…

The idea that an iPad can perform all the functions that some people are (under) using a laptop for doesn't mean that an iPad is an adequate replacement for a computer. They should not be marketed as such.

Re: It's OK for Apple to block Firefox, but wrong when Microsoft does it

#54

Post by pohl »

rmk2 wrote: post #14
Karunamon wrote: post #7

Considering that Apple hasn't been legally ruled to be an illegal monopoly and Microsoft has, the faux-righteous-indignation in the headline completely backfires.

Apple also has a lot more...vocal (dare I say 'zealous'?) followers trying to quell criticism. Those very same people will however gladly take every stab they can at Microsoft. (I think both companies deserve every bit of criticism for trying to repeat history all over again...)

Microsoft had an abundant supply vocal apologists back then. Moreover, they had the tech press (which was on paper at the time) in their pocket.

Re: It's OK for Apple to block Firefox, but wrong when Microsoft does it

#55

Post by unreal37 »

A lot of misinformation being spread here. Microsoft has not BANNED Firefox in Windows 8. There will be a version of Firefox for all editions of Windows 8, including desktop and tablet as long as Mozilla chooses to make one.

In Windows 8 for ARM-based tablets, applications like this have to run in a sandbox (Metro UI). Get over it. Either consumers will or will not buy a tablet that they can't run applications the way they wish. Perhaps a Windows 8 tablet will be a disaster and all this outrage will be for nothing.

Certainly the restrictions Apple places on iOS are in many ways worse. I don't see how you can be mad at Microsoft but give Apple a pass.

Re: It's OK for Apple to block Firefox, but wrong when Microsoft does it

#56

Post by CountSessine »

I'm going to put this question out here for everyone who's had some experience building a JIT engine of some kind: what exactly is the danger of compiling code, even unknown code like from downloaded javascript, when the process' operating environment is supposed to be hardened anyways?

Is it just that the only way to do this is with VirtualAlloc()/mmap()? Could a 'safe' executable page allocator be created for just this purpose?

If the JIT'ing code is tricked into compiling and executing 'malicious' code, hasn't the operating environment - what libs the process can load, what syscalls it has access to, etc - already been security-hardened? My understanding of WinRT is that it's already a bit of a sand-boxed environment, with limited and measured access to the machine's resources.

If it's possible for the JIT'ed code to do something REALLY bad, like install a driver or write to arbitrary system files or something, then it was possible for the JIT'ing code to do that too, and that's almost certainly a really really bad thing.

Even if it's just a matter of the JIT'ed code violating the trust agreement between the user and the JIT'ing code (ie doing something that the user was OK with Firefox doing, like reading the address book, but doing it for malicious reasons), maybe a new trust agreement can be designed, that would make users aware that the JIT'ing program is inherently a bit more dangerous?

Or maybe what really needs to happen is we have to treat JIT's as pluggable, upgradable OS infrastructure, sort of like the image loader or dyld/ld-linux.so? In that case, if the Firefox would install a browser and the Firefox JIT'ter as separate components, and then Firefox would ask it's JIT'er to compile/execute javascript into a separate process - one with much more limited access to the machine?

Re: It's OK for Apple to block Firefox, but wrong when Microsoft does it

#58

Post by [deleted] »

dm8 wrote: post #21
superuser2 wrote: post #13

Windows 8 is the natural successor to Win7 and XP. It's the next version of the most popular desktop OS in the world. As with Windows 7 and OSX, it should run whatever the hell the machine's owner wants it to. iOS is a locked-down, consistent, homogeneous user experience on specialty devices that should not be and are not marketed as replacements for computers. Apple Store employees will specifically advise against p…

That doesn't mean you should lockdown all the browser apps just to ensure your control. Both iOS and WP8 allow all sorts of apps to be run. Then why not another browser? AAPL's insistence for banning flash was justified. Flash has always been memory hog and battery killer but not allowing non-webkit browsers is foolish.

[deleted]

Re: It's OK for Apple to block Firefox, but wrong when Microsoft does it

#59

Post by ozten »

(Disclaimers: I work for Mozilla)

There is a huge difference between iOS and other platforms.

Apple, in legal terms, makes Firefox on iOS impossible. This was not the case with Windows; Microsoft was using covert means to undermine user choice.

To make a blanket statement that Mozilla thinks Apple's banning Firefox from iPad and the iPhone is 'not a problem' is wrong and disingenuous.

We have active projects around ways to give users choice within the constraints of Apple's licensing.

Mozilla fought and won against Microsoft's anti-competitive efforts, under an entirely different technical and legal landscape.

As a Mozillian, I'm pissed and have been pissed off since iOS's launch, but we also have to choose our battles on where we can fight to keep the web open.

To apple's credit, they've provided a web standards based browser to a mobile landscape that didn't have one (at the time) and which spawned many other web standards based browsers like Chrome.

Do I wish Safari on iOS have a freaking file input so I could upload photos from the gallery? YES! Would I want a Firefox browser that was proxy based to get around iOS licensing.... hell no. Is it worth the Mozilla community's time maintaining an iOS based port just for the people who jailbreak their iOS devices... probably not, but no one from Mozilla would stop you from doing the work.

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