Live data from Hacker News

Facebook Co-Founder Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

businessweek.com

51–60 of 100 posts

Re: Facebook Co-Founder Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

#51
post #10

He's going to regret this down the road. Yes taxing on Worldwide income is absurd but not more absurd than giving up your right to live in the US. There will come a day, probably not too far in the future, where being young and rich on a tiny island isn't fun anymore and he's going to want to do something with his life. He's going to be quite sad when doing it in the United States is no longer an option.

Singapore in not an island.

Singapore is an island

Re: Facebook Co-Founder Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

#52
post #10

He's going to regret this down the road. Yes taxing on Worldwide income is absurd but not more absurd than giving up your right to live in the US. There will come a day, probably not too far in the future, where being young and rich on a tiny island isn't fun anymore and he's going to want to do something with his life. He's going to be quite sad when doing it in the United States is no longer an option.

[deleted]

Re: Facebook Co-Founder Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

#53
post #3

Some friends of mine are yelling "see? our tax code is pushing capital overseas!" My argument is, that with $4B at stake, even if we had a "reasonable" income tax, people like this would still seek out tax havens where the burden is even lower still.

To a multibillionaire, the value of retaining American citizenship could easily be hundreds of millions of dollars. Or it might be much lower in that. The degree of which citizens seek tax havens will be proportional to the level of taxation, not a black-and-white yes-or-no thing.

I would argue the opposite. To someone with several billion dollars, citizenship probably doesn't matter all that much.

To someone with a couple million dollars, having that U.S. flag on their passport does afford a great deal of freedom and security. But, with several billion, you can pretty much buy all the freedom and security you can get.

Re: Facebook Co-Founder Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

#54
The catch here is: good luck getting back in. The US gov't takes notice of this stuff, and it's just good to be aware of the implications for if you ever want to come back to the US. Not saying it's wrong or right (by all means, the less tax the better), but it's important to be aware of the consequences.

Re: Facebook Co-Founder Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

#56

US citizenship is a nasty trap from which it is extremely difficult to escape. The US is one of a very small number of countries which will happily tax its citizens on income earned overseas, thus causing them to pay double taxes on everything they earn. This has seriously bad consequences for US competitiveness, in particular: 1. It discourages competent foreign citizens from seeking US citizenship (a greencard is s…

It's my understanding that there are no "double taxes", only that you still have to go through the tax process for both countries and you deduct your non-US taxes from your US taxes, then pay the difference if the US taxes are greater.

Re: Facebook Co-Founder Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if ever trade with Cuba of many of the countries the US is at war with, you will face criminal charges even long after you have given up your green card. Hong Kong, Singapore, Switzerland. Get yourself a permanent residency in at least one of those three.

Singapore permanent residents are required to do 24 months of military service, and in addition, show up for annual refresher training every year until they turn 40. I'm currently an American expat who has to file a 1040 once a year, and I would gladly continue doing that rather than spend a bunch of my time in the Singaporean military...

I thought that was only for the children of PRs. First generation immigrant citizens and PR do not have to do military service if their over a certain age. And countries with military service requirements have many ways to get out of it.

Re: Facebook Co-Founder Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

#58
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should give people a number of votes proportional to how much money they have, to give wealthy people more incentive to stay.

That is a joke right? (I really hope so)

Personally I'm in favour of a system where it's done both ways. Most countries have a bicameral legislature in which one branch is a bit of a joke. My idea is that there should be a "House of Representatives" and a "House of Taxpayers", both of whom need to sign off on any bill.

In the election for the House of Representatives, everyone gets an equal vote. In the election for the House of Taxpayers, everyone gets a vote precisely proportional to how much tax they pay.

That way, the interests of everybody are balanced -- the folks who are affected by a new law and the folks who have to pay for the new law have both signed off on it.

It's a pipe dream, I know, but it'd be nice to see a country where the most competent citizens are appreciated rather than punished.

Re: Facebook Co-Founder Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

#59

You can't escape US taxation by giving up citizenship. He will have to pay the exit tax instituted in the 2008 Heroes Earning Assistance and Relief Tax Act (HEART) on all unrealized gains he has worldwide because his net worth is likely greater than $2 million. I believe it is set at 30%. As Facebook has announced the strike price, the value of the company and what his tax liability is, already has a very dollar valu…

The article says he actually gave it up last September, so the numbers might have been fuzzier then. Regardless, he's protected from tax on any subsequent rise in stock price. You can't escape past or current tax, but you can "escape" future taxation.

On the ten-year tax shadow: How would that even work? If you were no longer a citizen, what claim would the US have on your money?

Re: Facebook Co-Founder Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

#60

US citizenship is a nasty trap from which it is extremely difficult to escape. The US is one of a very small number of countries which will happily tax its citizens on income earned overseas, thus causing them to pay double taxes on everything they earn. This has seriously bad consequences for US competitiveness, in particular: 1. It discourages competent foreign citizens from seeking US citizenship (a greencard is s…

Your assumption on #2 is not correct. Americans living abroad get a tax credit (almost $100k currently), so in practice average-income US professionals living abroad are US tax-exempt. Above that, there are many rules designed to prevent double-taxation.

Also, US citizenship is not a "trap" in Eduardo's case. It was his choice to become an American citizen in the first place.

Post reply on HN