Lawyers who voided Elon Musk's pay as excessive want $6B fee • Hacker News Board

Re: Lawyers who voided Elon Musk's pay as excessive want $6B fee

#51

Post by rhelz » Sat, Mar 02, 2024, 9:09 PM UTC

seydor wrote: post #35

pylua wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> did not win or lose anything Is this true? Would there not be dilution?

he s a shareholder too, no? net should be zero

An example with smaller numbers: Suppose a company is worth $10 and has 10 shares. The board issues 10 more shares to one person.

Sure, the company would still be worth $10. But there are now 20 shares outstanding. Everybody except the guy who got 10 shares would see their shares fall in value from $1 to 50 cents.

Basically, issuing stock to one person has the effect, mutatis mutants, of transferring wealth from all the other shareholders to the person who got the new stock.

Re: Lawyers who voided Elon Musk's pay as excessive want $6B fee

#52

Post by mschuster91 » Sat, Mar 02, 2024, 9:10 PM UTC

rhelz wrote: post #11

Ekaros wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Set maximum billable rate at minimum wage. That seems only fair solution. It is enough for many workers, should be enough for anyone.

chuckle why stop there? motherhood seems to be a quite important job. I don't know about you, but my mother didn't even get minimum wage for all her mothering. How much she got is the same number, whether you measure it in dollars, euros, or pounds: 0.00

In many European countries, you actually do get government assistance for children [1].

[1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindergeld

Re: Lawyers who voided Elon Musk's pay as excessive want $6B fee

#53

Post by Eddy_Viscosity2 » Sat, Mar 02, 2024, 9:33 PM UTC

mgiannopoulos wrote: post #45

rhelz wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

// The board, run by the shareholders // If the board was representative of the shareholders wishes, the shareholders wouldn't have sued the board.

About 78% or so of the shareholders voted in favour of the deal. And will probably vote again when asked. The lawsuit was done by a shareholder with a total of 9 (nine) shares.

If those 78% of shareholders believe that Elon having $56B MORE is a priority in their lives, then should just voluntarily give Elon their shares or send him cash.

Re: Lawyers who voided Elon Musk's pay as excessive want $6B fee

#54

Post by mansion7 » Sat, Mar 02, 2024, 9:56 PM UTC

bigmattystyles wrote: post #3

sudden_dystopia wrote: post #2

I despise lawyers.

Until you need one

Until you need one to defend you from... another lawyer.

A pattern emerges

Re: Lawyers who voided Elon Musk's pay as excessive want $6B fee

#55

Post by voisin » Sat, Mar 02, 2024, 10:43 PM UTC

f38zf5vdt wrote: post #42

pylua wrote: post #6

I am confused. These are the lawyers that sued Tesla and won, not Elon/Telsa's lawyers, and they want that sort of payout due to the cost savings to Tesla? If so, I wonder who funded the original lawsuit -- was that not enough -- or was this the idea all along?

It's straightforward. The attorneys are arguing that because they have prevented what amounts to the embezzlement of $50b from Tesla and its shareholders, they are entitled to close to 10%. This is similar to SEC whistleblowers. > The Commission is authorized by Congress to provide monetary awards to eligible individuals who come forward with high-quality original information that leads to a Commission enforcement ac…

> prevented what amounts to the embezzlement

How does it amount to embezzlement? I understand the SEC reward is for whistleblowing, but how is it whistleblowing if the information want publicly available via filings?

Re: Lawyers who voided Elon Musk's pay as excessive want $6B fee

#56

Post by pylua » Sat, Mar 02, 2024, 11:07 PM UTC

salawat wrote: post #48

pylua wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The board, run by the shareholders, wanted that deal and put it in place. They must have thought that the value add was worth it. Granted, it seems many do not think they acted correctly, hence the ruling and the lawsuits. The point is that time will tell if this really saves money over the long run. I do not know the law and I am not questioning the board here.

Think of all the employees that 56B could hire to increase the quality of the end product.

One person with domain knowledge of running things could be well worth it. How many times have you seen adding more people just make it a bigger, more unsustainable mess?

Granted 56 billion is a lot.

Re: Lawyers who voided Elon Musk's pay as excessive want $6B fee

#57

Post by mgiannopoulos » Sun, Mar 03, 2024, 12:10 AM UTC

Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #53

mgiannopoulos wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About 78% or so of the shareholders voted in favour of the deal. And will probably vote again when asked. The lawsuit was done by a shareholder with a total of 9 (nine) shares.

If those 78% of shareholders believe that Elon having $56B MORE is a priority in their lives, then should just voluntarily give Elon their shares or send him cash.

Companies and shareholders meetings work a bit differently than what you suggest. Other than that, the grand majority of Tesla shareholders are quite happy with the financial state of the company and would like for Musk to continue leading the company and be compensated for it.

Re: Lawyers who voided Elon Musk's pay as excessive want $6B fee

#58

Post by hagbard_c » Sun, Mar 03, 2024, 12:27 AM UTC

rhelz wrote: post #9

mschuster91 wrote: post #4

IMHO, it's high time to stop paying lawyers, accountants, notary publics (in Germany) and similar professions in percentages. There is no way a bunch of lawyers deserves that kind of payout.

Who gets to decide how much everybody "deserves" for their work? Answer, the payer and the payee. You don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate.

> Who gets to decide how much everybody "deserves" for their work? Answer, the payer and the payee. You don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate.

...unless you're Musk who negotiated a deal with the company he leads only to have a few shysters insisting the deal is off while claiming 10% of the negotiated deal for themselves.

The board of Tesla did agree with the terms and conditions, probably because they thought the conditions would not be met.

Re: Lawyers who voided Elon Musk's pay as excessive want $6B fee

#59

Post by Kluggy » Sun, Mar 03, 2024, 12:44 AM UTC

mgiannopoulos wrote: post #46

Kluggy wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There absolutely will be

Since the stock went up 10x during the timeframe of the deal, the shareholders benefited a lot.

Some shareholder benefited a lot. Some bought at the top and have only had negative returns. Some have a net zero cause the bought at this point on the way up.

Just because some people have astronomical returns doesn't mean everyone received the same.

Re: Lawyers who voided Elon Musk's pay as excessive want $6B fee

#60

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 » Sun, Mar 03, 2024, 12:53 AM UTC

pylua wrote: post #6

I am confused. These are the lawyers that sued Tesla and won, not Elon/Telsa's lawyers, and they want that sort of payout due to the cost savings to Tesla? If so, I wonder who funded the original lawsuit -- was that not enough -- or was this the idea all along?

"If so I wonder who funded the original lawsuit -- was that not enough -- or was this the idea all along?"

The plaintiffs law firms "funded it" by working for free, on a contingency basis: if plaintiffs win, the law firms get paid for their work. They won. Now they seek payment for their work.