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Google, I've had enough. How about a Compromise?

ninjasandrobots.com

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Re: Google, I've had enough. How about a Compromise?

#51

I really, really don't buy the idea that I should feel bad for using adblock. The whole "ads can be a way to provide quality services, and adblock removes that revenue" is the marketer's equivalent to the {MP|RI}AA's "every pirate is a stolen sale". The whole thing with the Internet is about desintermediation, and marketing departments are nothing but middle-men between producers and consumers. Even worse that they a…

marketing departments are nothing but middle-men between producers and consumers

This is kind of tangential to your point, but a good marketing department is a lot more than just advertising. The role of marketing can include getting an understanding of the market and helping to build the right thing.

Re: Google, I've had enough. How about a Compromise?

#52
post #47

Now, let's be serious. If we all block ads, whic is really trivial to do, then the web would cease to be an important medium, the quality of content found through the web would drop sharply and our lives would lose the enrichment that online advertising brings. It would just be terrible. Don't block ads. A kitten is tortured everytime you do.

I understand this point and it is a good one. But do people really click on ads that much? I didn't even realise that they registered for people. They must or it wouldn't be a profitable system. Strange.

You might only need 1 in 10,000 ad views to result in a click to make money. It entirely depends upon what you're trying to get them to do/buy/sign up for on your site.

Re: Google, I've had enough. How about a Compromise?

#53

Now, let's be serious. If we all block ads, whic is really trivial to do, then the web would cease to be an important medium, the quality of content found through the web would drop sharply and our lives would lose the enrichment that online advertising brings. It would just be terrible. Don't block ads. A kitten is tortured everytime you do.

Yeah, I remember that the Internet was completely useless until the corporate interests started throwing ad money into it, too.

Re: Google, I've had enough. How about a Compromise?

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That argument is false for a few reasons. With many online services, who's to say precisely what the product is. Aren't we (the users) the real product for a lot of large, free services (gmail, Facebook, etc.)? And for the bandwidth, I'm paying for that too. I pay an ISP every month to browser the internet. Shouldn't I be able to control what I use this bandwidth for? When I click on a link, I don't truly know what r…

I don't disagree that as a consumer you should have the right to choose what gets sent to you - but generally, if you're using a site, you're also consenting to its terms of service (which generally include accepting its ads.) As such, the product IS actually defined for you, and not up for you to define as you see fit. Using it outside of those terms is theft of service. If you don't want accept those ads, fine, but…

To take this line of reasoning a step further, you're not really acting in good faith if you view the ads without ever buying the products or services they advertise. The advertiser pays the provider of the site in the expectation of a reasonable conversion rate. If you don't want to buy a certain reasonable percentage of products advertised to you, fine, but from an ethical and legal standpoint you shouldn't be forcing them to waste their advertising budget on you. Doing so diminishes the advertiser's incentive to support the site whose content you're consuming.

Here are some terms of service for you. When you enter into any business venture, you accept the risk of it not succeeding. Wishful thinking notwithstanding, the consumer is under no obligation to indemnify you against it.

Re: Google, I've had enough. How about a Compromise?

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you that the MPAA claim is silly. But in this case, you're actually consuming the product - using their bandwidth, their servers, etc, all of which costs money - and denying them the revenue they use to support that service. The argument with the MPAA concept is that you're not denying them a sale, nor are you increasing their cost of doing business, but here you're you're doing the latter. Do you really…

The thing is, if the product is actually valuable to me, I would spend more money on them that they could ever make from me through ads. "But wait, what about freemium? Plenty of services remove the ads for paying customers", one might ask. The problem with it is that you now a have false sense of choice: 1) Free product + ads 2) Paid product and no ads. There is a third alternative: free product, adblock, no ads. Ye…

It's technically possible for sites to not serve content to those who use adblock. I remember arstechnica.com did this once to make a point. I guess if this was widespread, it would turn into an arms race though.

Re: Google, I've had enough. How about a Compromise?

#56

Now, let's be serious. If we all block ads, whic is really trivial to do, then the web would cease to be an important medium, the quality of content found through the web would drop sharply and our lives would lose the enrichment that online advertising brings. It would just be terrible. Don't block ads. A kitten is tortured everytime you do.

I think you have your tongue in cheek, but I'm going to bite because I have something to say even if you're not being serious ;-)

I'm an online publisher who has a significant percentage of income that comes via advertising and I think ad blocking is a good force for the Web. I don't use it, but I don't have a problem with those who do.

Ad blockers typically block poorly performing display advertising (the CTRs on banners nowadays is ridiculously low and the levels of recall have been shown to be abysmally low in studies) and text link advertising from the big networks.

Ad blockers typically do not block 'content marketing', videos on sites like YouTube, editorial mentions of products, references to products and services within content, adverts in podcasts, job ads (usually), sponsors in e-mail newsletters, and a whole myriad of other ways that smart advertisers and publishers are using.

It's about time we killed off mass market display advertising online. Why? Because it gives publishers an incentive to actually work to provide experiences that benefit both readers and advertisers and not sit on their fat asses collecting checks for doing sod all.

Re: Google, I've had enough. How about a Compromise?

#57

Now, let's be serious. If we all block ads, whic is really trivial to do, then the web would cease to be an important medium, the quality of content found through the web would drop sharply and our lives would lose the enrichment that online advertising brings. It would just be terrible. Don't block ads. A kitten is tortured everytime you do.

I think you have your tongue in cheek, but I'm going to bite because I have something to say even if you're not being serious ;-) I'm an online publisher who has a significant percentage of income that comes via advertising and I think ad blocking is a good force for the Web. I don't use it, but I don't have a problem with those who do. Ad blockers typically block poorly performing display advertising (the CTRs on ba…

I'm not sure I understand. Moving from obvious ads to "editorial mentions of products" and "references to products and services within content" is supposed to be an improvement of some sort? To me those seem like just about the sleaziest kind of advertising there is.

Re: Google, I've had enough. How about a Compromise?

#58
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have your tongue in cheek, but I'm going to bite because I have something to say even if you're not being serious ;-) I'm an online publisher who has a significant percentage of income that comes via advertising and I think ad blocking is a good force for the Web. I don't use it, but I don't have a problem with those who do. Ad blockers typically block poorly performing display advertising (the CTRs on ba…

I'm not sure I understand. Moving from obvious ads to "editorial mentions of products" and "references to products and services within content" is supposed to be an improvement of some sort? To me those seem like just about the sleaziest kind of advertising there is.

As with many things, it depends on how it's done. If there's no disclosure and editorial keeps referring to certain products or companies without any implication of a relationship, that's just payola. Sadly, there are plenty of outlets and magazines that are suspected of or have been caught doing this.

Increasingly, though, reputable media organizations are doing collaborations with brands, such as with merchandise, pull outs, giveaways, or in clearly marked 'products we like' sections (essentially advertising as content - super popular in fashion and women's magazines). It's a rapidly spreading model in the magazine space in particular. Monocle magazine is one of the exemplary examples - http://www.reallypractical.com/2009/07/06/is-monocle-the-fut...

The big traffic/small CPM model is still too lucrative online for the bigger online publishers to spend too much time on the newer ideas, but the hands of other media have been forced by tumbling revenues and, in a funny twist, are becoming more progressive.

On quality, though, the readership will ultimately vote with their feet (or clicks) - outlets that fall into the payola trap will suffer audience drops and legal trouble, outlets that transparently entertain or inform their readership in conjunction with advertisers will thrive (as Monocle is).

Separate from pairing up with media outlets, many advertisers are now going 'direct' to audiences with content-driven campaigns (not just videos, but entire content sites). Digitally prodigious companies and startups have been doing this for ages with blogs and the like, but the approach is now becoming mainstream and being taken on by the big brands.

Ad blockers are next to useless on all of this but, IMHO, the end result is better. Outlets and brands have to start telling interesting stories and sharing interesting content, instead of tricking us into clicking graphics and becoming leads.

Re: Google, I've had enough. How about a Compromise?

#59
post #12

I had no idea retargeting even was a thing, until one particular ad kept repeatedly showing up. When my grandmother died last year we looked up the website for a cremation service to find their phone number. Then for the next week or so I kept seeing banner ads for the same cremation service all over the web, on completely unrelated sites. I would expect to see a cremation service ad on an obituary page, maybe a loca…

When it started happening to me I was more or less indifferent other than to think: "why are they showing me an endless stream of ads for things I'm already a customer of?". I have more disposable income, so show me something new ferchrissakes.

That's another case I saw it. A year and a half ago I bought a cruise ticket from Holland America, and next thing I know I'm seeing Holland America ads across the internet.

At the time I thought they were just doing an ad blitz, because it was the time of year when people plan vacations for the summer ahead and might consider going on cruises. In hindsight it seems silly for them to spend money displaying ads to me, when I've already paid (a substantial sum of money) for their product.

It wasn't until the funeral service ads that I realized I was being targeted for having visited specific websites.

Re: Google, I've had enough. How about a Compromise?

#60
ESPN3 and NBC Sports online are SO bad at showing the same two commercials at every single break. I assume its because nobody wants to spend their money on ads only to have them shown online, but damn. I must've seen that "We just had a Journey moment there" ad a thousand times while watching college basketball this winter. It doesn't help that they have some annoying catchphrase that stands out or high-pitched sound/song to up its annoyance factor.

Something really, really needs to be done about this.

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