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In war for talent, 'brogrammers' will be losers

cnn.com

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Re: In war for talent, 'brogrammers' will be losers

#51

Post by maybird »

MartinCron wrote: post #37
maybird wrote: post #12

Tech start-ups founded by women are few and far between, but they're highly attractive to female and male candidates who don't want to join a boys' club. My best experiences have been working with, or for, women. I stumbled on these companies purely accidentally tho. I wish there was a list of companies that have a better-than-SV-average rate of women.

That's a list that I would like to see, as well. If there's a strong interest, I would be willing to collaborate on creating and maintaining one.

You'd be doing God's work!

Companies with better-balanced workforces deserve to be recognized.

Re: In war for talent, 'brogrammers' will be losers

#52

Post by AaronLasseigne »

stcredzero wrote: post #21

That's one small way brogrammer culture is actually useful. It's a red flag for women... The problem with the brogrammer caricature, is that it exaggerates a few overt features of regular geek culture in a way that overshadows underlying pathologies in programming shops. There are forms of intolerance and aggression that have nothing to do with homophobia or sexism (or any other readily vilifying -ism) but which are…

>> However there's plenty of that sort of failure to go around in the mainstream of programmer culture at large, in groups that look nothing like brogrammers -- in ways that even affect technical decisions.

All of these articles that discuss brogramming are helping to shed light on the issues of sexism in the programming community. However, too often they read as though this is a new problem. The programmer stereotype used to be that we didn't know how to interact with women. Now we have a programmers objectifying women. I agree with you, the issue is larger than brogramming.

I suspect that the issue could be helped by having more female programmers. It's much more difficult to be bigoted (be it gender, sexuality, culture, etc) toward a group when you work with and respect a member of that group. Of course, it'll be difficult to get more women involved in programming given the current culture.

Re: In war for talent, 'brogrammers' will be losers

#53

Post by lmm »

maybird wrote: post #12

Tech start-ups founded by women are few and far between, but they're highly attractive to female and male candidates who don't want to join a boys' club. My best experiences have been working with, or for, women. I stumbled on these companies purely accidentally tho. I wish there was a list of companies that have a better-than-SV-average rate of women.

My best experience by far was on an all-male team - not "bros" in any way I saw, just the best guys for the job. If you ever make such a list, see if you can apply some statistics and get some evidence rather than our own anecdotes.

Re: In war for talent, 'brogrammers' will be losers

#54

Post by mnicole »

citricsquid wrote: post #9
natesm wrote: post #4

> "Wanna bro down and crush some code?" What? Who would say that, ever? > San Francisco-based Klout Oh. Carry on then. "Brogrammers" are pretty hilarious though. I mean, aside from the utility of being a "warning, we're a company of homophobes and sexists" alert, I think that it started as a joke? Then, there were people that didn't realize it was a joke and started actually using it. I think that's pretty funny.

> San Francisco-based Klout I guess it goes with the territory, Klout is a company built around false-ego, why not have employees suffer from the same ailment?

But the VIP Lounge at SFO!?

Re: In war for talent, 'brogrammers' will be losers

#55

Post by tomjen3 »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #30

I think I'm reaching the end of my tolerance for the word "brogrammer" I don't tolerate sexism, racism, or bigotry. Period. Whether it has a catchy name or not. I have noticed that many of the attributes associated to "brogrammer" are attributes I associate with immature males. Here's the thing: I do not believe that shaming immature males is going to make them more mature. In fact, I think it's going to drive the en…

Do you have any evidence that these diversity teams actually make more money?

I mean it is a nice political correct speech speech, but feelings have no place in business (except, possibly, to woe over employees or customers). Businesses exists to make money.

Re: In war for talent, 'brogrammers' will be losers

#57

Post by tomjen3 »

stcredzero wrote: post #21

That's one small way brogrammer culture is actually useful. It's a red flag for women... The problem with the brogrammer caricature, is that it exaggerates a few overt features of regular geek culture in a way that overshadows underlying pathologies in programming shops. There are forms of intolerance and aggression that have nothing to do with homophobia or sexism (or any other readily vilifying -ism) but which are…

So are you saying that hot girls don't make the world a better place? As in you either wouldn't care or that you would prefer having less hot women?

As for the entire objectifying thing -- when I see something beautiful, being a statue, a painting or, yes, a girl -- it makes my day better. And what is wrong with enjoying the beautiful things in life? It would be awfully dull if we were to go through life as if it was a Catholic sunday school.

Anyway there is nothing wrong with beautiful girls, there is nothing wrong with smart girls and there is nothing that prevent a girl from being both.

Re: In war for talent, 'brogrammers' will be losers

#59

Post by weavejester »

tomjen3 wrote: post #55
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #30

I think I'm reaching the end of my tolerance for the word "brogrammer" I don't tolerate sexism, racism, or bigotry. Period. Whether it has a catchy name or not. I have noticed that many of the attributes associated to "brogrammer" are attributes I associate with immature males. Here's the thing: I do not believe that shaming immature males is going to make them more mature. In fact, I think it's going to drive the en…

Do you have any evidence that these diversity teams actually make more money? I mean it is a nice political correct speech speech, but feelings have no place in business (except, possibly, to woe over employees or customers). Businesses exists to make money.

Saying businesses exist to make money is like saying humans exist to eat.

Re: In war for talent, 'brogrammers' will be losers

#60

Post by tripzilch »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #30

I think I'm reaching the end of my tolerance for the word "brogrammer" I don't tolerate sexism, racism, or bigotry. Period. Whether it has a catchy name or not. I have noticed that many of the attributes associated to "brogrammer" are attributes I associate with immature males. Here's the thing: I do not believe that shaming immature males is going to make them more mature. In fact, I think it's going to drive the en…

> I'd take violent anarchists, Buddhists, and Nazis in a team if I could make it work. Just keep the bad behavior offsite.

If you'd do that, good luck keeping your bad behaviour of knowingly hiring Nazis off-site.

Or "violent ". What level of violence are we talking about btw, that this employee that you hired for your team actually bombs things outside the workplace, or that s/he merely stabs or beats up people outside the workplace?

Or do you mean as long as they're able to keep the bad behaviour outside the workplace well enough so you can plausibly claim you couldn't have known about it when you hired them.

> I do not want to live in your homogenized world.

LOL tell that to the Nazis you'd have no problems hiring despite their "natural personality flaws"!

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