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The virtuous mean between time drunkenness and work martyrdom

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Re: The virtuous mean between time drunkenness and work martyrdom

#51

Post by mschuster91 »

richrichie wrote: post #39
tw04 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much like the anti-vax movement, the average American seems in complete denial of how things really were a hundred years ago. Prior to unions, work looked completely different - EVERYONE has benefitted from the change unions brought about. It's easy to tell yourself that sort of thing would never happen in a country like this when you weren't a direct witness to people (including children) literally being worked to d…

Indeed. I would also add the climate-change cult to the list. They forget how bad things were just 100 years ago.

We are in the mess we are in to a large degree because of the historical emissions.

Re: The virtuous mean between time drunkenness and work martyrdom

#52

Post by watwut »

jvanderbot wrote: post #27
xyzelement wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

//It’s strange that we even work more or even at the same amount of time as 100 years ago. We don’t. A hundred years the average man was putting in 7 to 7 shifts on the factory or the farm. Physically exhausting, dangerous and painful labor that required your physical presence and likely left you too exhausted for anything else. Today you and I are click clacking our keyboards in a safe and air conditioned environmen…

The argument has another side, equally preposterous: That because of the increased productivity we should all be wealthy, working a few hours a day to do the "same" work, or being rewarded proportionally more (of course, inflation adjusted) for working more than that. It's preposterous because relative wages have stagnated relative to productivity boons, but oh man has standard of living increased as you say. A perso…

iPhone is irrelevant. Relevant issues are homelessness rates, affordability of healthcare or education, pensions in an old age.

Re: The virtuous mean between time drunkenness and work martyrdom

#53

Post by CalRobert »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #4

It’s strange that we even work more or even at the same amount of time as 100 years ago. We have systems that increase worker productivity and even software by itself for the most part should be decreasing the amount of work to be done since it’s supposedly a large force multiplier for productivity. Economists predicted we would be working less (but they are bad at predicting most things) so while there might be a fe…

But you are not trying to produce a fixed amount of goods. You are trying to compete with your peers for a limited supply of goods. Some of these things are artificially constrained (housing), and some of these things are hard or impossible to scale and thereby subject to Baumol's cost disease (surgeons, teachers/tutors, etc.)

So long as 2 people are chasing 1 house, or worse, one oncology appointment for their child, you will have people working themselves to the bone to outcompete their peers. We could, of course, allow building more homes and improve the supply of healthcare, but that might mean people wouldn't work as hard, which would mean less surplus wealth for capital owners and state actors to enjoy.

Re: The virtuous mean between time drunkenness and work martyrdom

#54

Post by ikr678 »

sibeliuss wrote: post #43

My colleagues would consider me a 'work martyr', but what they don't understand is that my strategy is to get everything done as fast as possible and then to significantly chill. With deadlines covered and all the details buttoned up way ahead of time, it leads to a much less stressful life.

My partner has this same philosophy, but somehow all that seems to happen is them taking on more work (uncompensated) as soon as they get ahead, and the sought-after chill period and energy for non-work never seems to materialise.

Re: The virtuous mean between time drunkenness and work martyrdom

#55

Post by j7ake »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #4

It’s strange that we even work more or even at the same amount of time as 100 years ago. We have systems that increase worker productivity and even software by itself for the most part should be decreasing the amount of work to be done since it’s supposedly a large force multiplier for productivity. Economists predicted we would be working less (but they are bad at predicting most things) so while there might be a fe…

If you’re working half the time versus millions of comparably talented people full time: you will soon be out of a job (if employee) or a business (if employer).

Re: The virtuous mean between time drunkenness and work martyrdom

#56

Post by TylerE »

klyrs wrote: post #34
jhp123 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that in 1924 people were working 84-hour weeks (including Sunday!) is preposterous. For example Ford introduced the 8-hour day at its factories in 1914.

You were responding to somebody talking about farm labor, by talking about industrial labor. I'm not gonna pick a side here, but to say that what you each present as fact is not in conflict.

He’s not wrong, though hh. The claim made was true 150-175 years ago, but not 100.

Re: The virtuous mean between time drunkenness and work martyrdom

#57

Post by RandomLensman »

nyokodo wrote: post #32
tw04 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much like the anti-vax movement, the average American seems in complete denial of how things really were a hundred years ago. Prior to unions, work looked completely different - EVERYONE has benefitted from the change unions brought about. It's easy to tell yourself that sort of thing would never happen in a country like this when you weren't a direct witness to people (including children) literally being worked to d…

> Prior to unions, work looked completely different Average working hours were dropping for decades before Labor Unions became popular in the 1930s driven by the productivity gains referenced elsewhere in the thread. The trend continued unabated other than an increase during WWII even after Union membership peaked in 1980 and dropped for 30 years. It doesn’t seem that Labor Unions were the cause of this improvement t…

That seems to be a US centric view (and the US is different when it comes to unions from continental Europe, for example).

Re: The virtuous mean between time drunkenness and work martyrdom

#58

Post by coldtea »

Ecoste wrote: post #3

"Time drunks deeply intuit this, and their procrastination-induced state of timelessness should not be considered a terrible character flaw but rather an act of spiritual rebellion against modernity." Thank you, I needed that. Time to continue procrastitating.

Not to mention ADHD/ADD where time-drunkness is the default state, and takes superhuman effort and toll to overcome it.

Re: The virtuous mean between time drunkenness and work martyrdom

#59

Post by coldtea »

CalRobert wrote: post #53
zitterbewegung wrote: post #4

It’s strange that we even work more or even at the same amount of time as 100 years ago. We have systems that increase worker productivity and even software by itself for the most part should be decreasing the amount of work to be done since it’s supposedly a large force multiplier for productivity. Economists predicted we would be working less (but they are bad at predicting most things) so while there might be a fe…

But you are not trying to produce a fixed amount of goods. You are trying to compete with your peers for a limited supply of goods. Some of these things are artificially constrained (housing), and some of these things are hard or impossible to scale and thereby subject to Baumol's cost disease (surgeons, teachers/tutors, etc.) So long as 2 people are chasing 1 house, or worse, one oncology appointment for their child…

>But you are not trying to produce a fixed amount of goods

At some point we should, for the most part of what we consume, instead of ever expanding into BS things we don't need (like "smart fridges") and burning down things we do need (time, which we aren't getting back, and is spend working and paying for such bullshit).

Re: The virtuous mean between time drunkenness and work martyrdom

#60

Post by lm28469 »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #4

It’s strange that we even work more or even at the same amount of time as 100 years ago. We have systems that increase worker productivity and even software by itself for the most part should be decreasing the amount of work to be done since it’s supposedly a large force multiplier for productivity. Economists predicted we would be working less (but they are bad at predicting most things) so while there might be a fe…

An image is worth a thousand words: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/US_produ...
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