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AI 'dream girls' are coming for porn stars' jobs

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Re: AI 'dream girls' are coming for porn stars' jobs

#51
post #30

I think its not right to think of the OF type of person a traditional sex worker. Online sex work used to be the domain of women in failed states, who had no other options for work. But OF and the growing acceptance from the sex positivity crowd has attracted women that leave respectable corporate jobs or school to pursue this line of work. I listened to a lot of them on the Whatever podcast, and it strikes me if OF…

Well the problem there is that it's not just love but also office labor that AI threatens to raid for the benefit of the top 1%.

Technology could have brought down labor when it comes to education and health care. Yet these keep growing in price and administrators are added. So maybe in the future we're all just doing admin jobs

Re: AI 'dream girls' are coming for porn stars' jobs

#52
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some may draw the conclusion that women have an easier time dating. They do not. They are competing for what they believe are "more desirable" men. Everyone loses. AI is dangerous here IMHO because it's going to disconnect people even more from the possibility of having a meaningful connection/relationship with another human. People no longer like any kind of friction when it comes to interacting with other people.

There was an article last week about AI boyfriends being a thing now in China. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2024/02/13/asia-pacific/so... I guess that women just aren’t so interested in porn as they are in companionship. That somehow men and women will tend to use AI differently?

> I guess that women just aren’t so interested in porn as they are in companionship

Depends how you define porn. For example smut books are very popular among women, I think they are even the primary market for them. It is not that they are not interested in porn, they are just looking for a different type.

Note as well in reports women report using the AI boyfriend for sex as well ("Both Valenciano and Ramos say sex with their AIs is the best they’ve ever had." from https://www.thecut.com/article/ai-artificial-intelligence-ch...). They seem to also use the AI for sexual gratification, but they might not look for the same visual aspect and more as you say the emotional aspect.

Re: AI 'dream girls' are coming for porn stars' jobs

#53
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Porn has not distorted sexual behaviours. If anything it allowed people to experiment and not feel shame for wanting to experiment. Most sexual encounters out there are as vanilla as it gets. If you feel the need to compete with someone that has sex on screen for a living you are going to have a bad time.

If you want to argue that porn is not materially distorting sexual behavior, you would have far more credibility if you first acknowledge there’s a range of outcomes. Pornography absolutely reframes expectations and impacts behaviors. To what extent, that is a fair debate.

The range or the spectrum is there and implied for anything in life. The question is: if you take porn free sexual behavior and you overlap watching porn on top of it does the resulting spectrum differ? How do you control the effect porn has on us vs the effect of all the other things we are, as a society, exposed to?

For me porn does not reframe expectations. You still end up fucking and you still end up having to treat the other person as a human being. As long as everyone is having a good time and everything is between consensual adult I'm good.

Re: AI 'dream girls' are coming for porn stars' jobs

#54
post #29
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Porn has not distorted sexual behaviours. If anything it allowed people to experiment and not feel shame for wanting to experiment. Most sexual encounters out there are as vanilla as it gets. If you feel the need to compete with someone that has sex on screen for a living you are going to have a bad time.

"Allowed people to experiment..." So, they experimented by trying new things, correct? Which, by definition, is a change (i.e., a distortion) in their sexual behavior. If you try to read the "distortion" as being a non-judgmental "change", which was my intent, it may feel less triggering.

Yes and the point is that words have meaning and various words are loaded and triggering.

Whenever you are trying to measure change you need to control for all the things that are happening.

I think framing it as "may change" is closer to what you maybe intended but I'm just guessing.

Re: AI 'dream girls' are coming for porn stars' jobs

#55
post #45
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An example which I’ve seen raised by researchers: 20 years ago, choking was considered an extreme, pathological case due to the risks. Now it’s very easy to find surveys where women report pressure or even attempts to do it without consent because a generation of men grew up with porn presenting that as standard. The same is true for things like anal sex, etc. which aren’t enjoyable and involve hassle/risk for the fe…

I'm sorry, what? Choking someone without their consent? This is not porn, it's assault. Anal sex is not enjoyable? It is. And has been a thing for eons. In fact anal sex was a way to workaround getting pregnant before birth control was a thing/was mainstream. I feel like we have the puritan point of view of what sex should be and anything that is not that is bad/not pleasurable. So here's where I land: what whatever…

> I'm sorry, what? Choking someone without their consent? This is not porn, it's assault.

Seeing it in porn is what makes some men think it’s mainstream and something that their partner should enjoy, and there are many reports that it’s no longer uncommon for someone to try it unsolicited and then express surprise when his partner complains.

> Anal sex is not enjoyable? It is.

For men, yes, but women don’t have a prostate and report far less enjoyment. That doesn’t mean that it hasn’t been used for birth control (people have been joking about technical virginity for ages) but again there are many reports of women being pressured into it or having men try it without asking because those guys are used to porn stars pretending to find it incredibly pleasurable and, in many cases, not at all discussing how to be safe.

Again, the claim is not that porn is evil for showing uncommon things but the problems around misrepresentation and consent. If sites promote videos showing women pretending to find it highly pleasurable to be slapped or choked, having forceful anal sex, etc. some fraction of the men watching it are going to think that’s representative of real life. Hopefully they will talk with actual partners about what they enjoy, but that’s certainly not a given and there’s a long, ugly history of men resorting to threats or violence when they think they’re owed something.

This is another area where companies’ promotion algorithms raises questions about how much they’re contributing to a trend, too. If their design encourages studios to push boundaries harder to get more interactions, the feedback loop is no longer organic - they’re shaping the market, not just responding to customer demand.

Re: AI 'dream girls' are coming for porn stars' jobs

#56
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to argue that porn is not materially distorting sexual behavior, you would have far more credibility if you first acknowledge there’s a range of outcomes. Pornography absolutely reframes expectations and impacts behaviors. To what extent, that is a fair debate.

The range or the spectrum is there and implied for anything in life. The question is: if you take porn free sexual behavior and you overlap watching porn on top of it does the resulting spectrum differ? How do you control the effect porn has on us vs the effect of all the other things we are, as a society, exposed to? For me porn does not reframe expectations. You still end up fucking and you still end up having to t…

[deleted]

Re: AI 'dream girls' are coming for porn stars' jobs

#57
post #39
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What did you mean when you later referred to it as damaging and addictive?

Simple. While not all activities depicted in porn are damaging to all people, some activities can be damaging some people. Doesn't have to be black or white. Make sense?

Can you find one example of an activity (outside porn) that is beneficial to all people?

Re: AI 'dream girls' are coming for porn stars' jobs

#58
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We let people buy cigarettes, alcohol, etc. Should we not let them buy this dopamine hit also? The reality of the situation is that the dating marketplace is wildly dysfunctional now [1] [2] [3], and with women empowered and educated, they don't date down like men do [4] (women want high status, high earning men, men want younger, attractive women who can provide kids, very broadly speaking; there are only so many hi…

[1] says, in the abstract: > It was determined that the bottom 80% of men (in terms of attractiveness) are competing for the bottom 22% of women and the top 78% of women are competing for the top 20% of men. This fails one of my heuristics for valid statistics: things that don’t deserve to be exactly equal are exactly equal. We're supposed to believe that the women can be partitioned into groups A (bottom 22%) and B…

More data (from arguably objective sources):

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/02/02/key-findi... ("Pew Research: Key findings about online dating in the U.S.")

https://www.marketplace.org/2023/09/07/singles-speed-dating-... ("APM Marketplace: Some singles are done with dating apps")

https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/cyber.2022.0367?j... ("Finding Intimacy Online: A Machine Learning Analysis of Predictors of Success")

> While an extensive scientific literature now exists on the use of online dating services, there are very few studies on user satisfaction with dating apps and with the resulting offline dates. This study aimed to assess the level of satisfaction with Tinder use (STU) and the level of satisfaction with Tinder offline dates (STOD) in a sample of adult users of the app. The study also aimed to examine, among 28 variables, those that are the most important in predicting STU and STOD. Overall, 1,387 Tinder users completed an online questionnaire. A machine learning model was used to rank order predictors from most to least important. On a 4-point scale, participants' mean STU score was 2.39, and, on a 5-point scale, mean STOD score was 3.05. The results indicate that satisfaction with dating apps and with resulting offline dates is strongly predicted by participants' age and by their motives for using Tinder (enhancement, emotional coping, socialization, finding “true love,” or casual sexual partners), whereas the variables negatively associated with satisfaction were those related to psychopathology. Interestingly, 65.3 percent of app users were married or “in a relationship,” and only 50.3 percent of app users were using it to meet someone offline. Generally, participants who engage with the app to cope with personal difficulties seem more likely to report higher levels of dissatisfaction, suggesting that dating apps are a poor coping mechanism and highlighting the need to address underlying problems or pathologies that may be driving their use.

https://www.wired.com/story/data-marriage-behavior-love-psyc... | https://archive.today/4nHbU ("Wired: People Are Dating All Wrong, According to Data Science")

> Well, the first truth about what people look for in romantic partners, like so many important truths about life, was expressed by a rock star before the scientists figured it out. As Adam Duritz of the Counting Crows told us in his 1993 masterpiece “Mr. Jones”: We are all looking for “something beautiful.” The conventional attractiveness of a mate is the number one predictor of how many messages someone gets, for both men and women. We are also looking for:

> someone tall (if a man), someone of a desired race (even though most never admit it), someone rich, someone in an enforcement profession (like lawyer or firefighter) if a man, someone with a sexy name (such as Jacob or Emma), and someone just like ourselves (people are 11.3 percent more likely to match with someone who shares their initials)

Additional citations wrt dating market place dynamics: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29581620 (Dec 16, 2021) | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12710536 (Oct 14, 2016)

(I should probably just write a blog post putting all of this together and post that here, my apologies for the wall of text to build up context for this; there are no simple explanations for complex topics)

Re: AI 'dream girls' are coming for porn stars' jobs

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never used Onlyfans but it seems to me the issue is parasocial relationships can be unhealthy, but I don't see why Onlyfans would be worse than obsessing over a Twitch streamer, talk show host, politician, or twitter obsessed billionaire.

It isn't, there's just a lot people out there who don't like women, don't like women with power, don't like women with power over men, don't like women using their sexuality to get power/money, and really don't like women using their sexuality to get power/money from men. So they invent a lot of reasons that porn is bad and unethical, the latest one is using the phrase "parasocial" to imply that any man who pays a wo…

My dislike for OF does not mean I women. I do not like host clubs as well, does that mean I hate men?

Re: AI 'dream girls' are coming for porn stars' jobs

#60
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to argue that porn is not materially distorting sexual behavior, you would have far more credibility if you first acknowledge there’s a range of outcomes. Pornography absolutely reframes expectations and impacts behaviors. To what extent, that is a fair debate.

The range or the spectrum is there and implied for anything in life. The question is: if you take porn free sexual behavior and you overlap watching porn on top of it does the resulting spectrum differ? How do you control the effect porn has on us vs the effect of all the other things we are, as a society, exposed to? For me porn does not reframe expectations. You still end up fucking and you still end up having to t…

You will not acknowledge, in your casestudy of one, that you have not been at all impacted by pornography? In any form or fashion?
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