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The Earth is getting greener

vox.com

51–60 of 180 posts

Re: The Earth is getting greener

#51
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe Vox slightly screwed this up but it's an understandable mistake: the article[1] refers to CO2 equivalent of emissions, not literal CO2. In particular methane from fertilizers seems to have a more negative impact on overall greenhouse gases than whatever CO2 the plants are absorbing. [1] https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/acd5e8

It has a much shorter atmospheric half life though, on the order of a decade vs thousands of years for CO2. If we cut methane emissions this will have a near term impact whereas cutting CO2 emissions just stops things from getting worse as fast. It reverses nothing.

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Re: The Earth is getting greener

#52
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> propagandists advancing world views detached from any empirical or rational belief The linked article is entirely empirical, and frankly seems like a good explainer for the lay public to understand what's happening. Your post seems a little like a strawman. Are you arguing against anything in particular?

This is the second paragraph: > Despite this destruction, scientists keep coming to an odd conclusion: The Earth is growing greener. Not green in the metaphorical “sustainable” sense, but in the literal color green. But this is something we knew two decades ago when I was a tween — not an “odd conclusion”. (The article implies four decades ago.) The only way you’d find it “odd” is if you followed The Science(TM) rath…

You're leaping from those two words[1] to a conspiracy around something you're calling "The Science(TM)"... Again, this seems like a very readable and worthwhile article to me. Explainer articles are Vox's specialty, and this frankly seems like a pretty good one. It's good you were paying attention four decades ago, not everyone was, and it's good that someone is trying to detail this for the people who weren't.

[1] Which can easily be interpreted as "surprising to the reader", which seems not at all controversial to me.

Re: The Earth is getting greener

#53

Potholer54 posts well notated videos on youtube where he explains (among other things) climate science and mostly debunks false information. He is a geologist by degree, but has spent his career in science communication. Videos are infrequent but well done, and he makes no money from them. He sites his sources and does a great job of tracking down primary sources, all of which are linked. One of his oft repeated idea…

thanks for the links and for summarizing them!

Re: The Earth is getting greener

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this. It's very frustrating seeing environmentalists frame the struggle to reduce anthropogenic climate change and pollution and use sustainable renewable resources and so on as some kind of moralistic obligation to some sort of abstract concept of nature, which is due deference and submission as something morally "greater" than ourselves that demands service, and as some kind of struggle to project very…

I guess that sort of response begs the question of if there is even anything greater to which humans owe some moral obligation; it sounds like you don't thing there is (though I apologize if this is reading more into your response than is actually there). But I suppose it really depends on what you mean by the Earth being "fine" in the end. Obviously, as a large chunk of iron, silicates, oxygen, carbon, et al, the Ea…

> I guess that sort of response begs the question of if there is even anything greater to which humans owe some moral obligation; it sounds like you don't thing there is (though I apologize if this is reading more into your response than is actually there).

No worries, you did in fact read me correctly. I don't really think moral obligations exist at all, and I don't think anything has moral "authority" over anything else either. In my opinion we are all just acting on our own desires regarding ourselves and the state of the world in general, and any appeals to sacred ideas or abstract concepts or moral authorities or moral obligations is just an attempt to project our own desires out onto the world so we can pretend they are objective, to hide from ourselves the fact that everything we do and want is ultimately equally arbitrary and without justification or legitimation. E.g., I'm a moral nihilist, not even a moral relativist. So for me, it would be fine for environmentalists to say that they want to fight for environmental causes because they want to preserve humanity's standard of living and well-being, or because they want the environment to look and be treated a certain way because that's simply how they desire it and it makes them happy — and many environmentalists do phrase things in that way in which case I don't have a problem with them — but it annoys me when they try to project their desires outwards and pretend like they are objective.

> But I suppose it really depends on what you mean by the Earth being "fine" in the end. Obviously, as a large chunk of iron, silicates, oxygen, carbon, et al, the Earth will continue its journey through space for a long time to come. Some forms of life will certainly persist for a few hundred million years until such time as it becomes uninhabitable due to stellar evolution. But if we humans are to wreak our own destruction, we will be far from the first species we remove from this Earth; we've already set about a mass extinction that will register in the geographic record.

This is certainly a very fair point, and a good response to what I was saying! However, I think the thing we have to remember is that mass extinctions have happened before, so if humanity wipes itself out and takes a huge amount of species with it, that's still well within the range of things the Earth has experienced before, even if it is happening faster than it would usually have done. After all, the actions of humans themselves are actions that are part of nature, and so we can consider ourselves fucking up the environment and extincting ourselves and a bunch of other animals as part of a natural cycle of adaptation just like any other species over hunting and starving itself to extinction or something. We just weren't fit to survive, in that case. Furthermore, independent of how we define earth being fine, I do think my point about moral obligations still stands from my perspective. I don't want people to stop caring about the environment, and I'll support that care, and honestly if some people even really want to enforce their Christian ideas of purity and virginity onto the environment then very well — they can continue fighting for that, and I'll just simply ignore them, but at least be truthful!

Re: The Earth is getting greener

#56
The Texas Sharpshooter fallacy is something we must be able to see. We get a lot of effects of a larger change, and pick the one that in a partial way, in a particular light, can be painted as positive.

There are a lot of "greener" things, the article talks only about a few of them, and some particular consequences. For example, greening in northern regions because losing permafrost is not positive, and lowering albedo (compared with not so dark colours) also increases warming. It is not something even across the whole planet or land regions, it may or not lead to sustainable CO2 level reductions, and when depleted water sources falls down, it could lead to more emissions.

It should be part of a bigger and complex process that is happening, it might slow down some bad trends in some particular regions, but the whole picture matters, and the trends of the big problem seem to not be affected, or at least seem to keep going strong(er) in the same bad direction.

Re: The Earth is getting greener

#57
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for posting this. I wanted to read a reasonable voice for a while, and I couldn't find anything. Search engines, traditional and LLM-based (ie ChatGPT) will actively censor all dissident voices, and it's just so tiring being unable to have a conversation with someone or read an article that's based on some common ground, some common assumptions between you and the writer.

Replace "climate change" with "vaccine safety", would you write that same response? Watch me get downvoted for even mentioning the word let alone express a dissenting opinion.

You'll be downvoted for "watch me get downvoted" more than anything

Re: The Earth is getting greener

#59

Potholer54 posts well notated videos on youtube where he explains (among other things) climate science and mostly debunks false information. He is a geologist by degree, but has spent his career in science communication. Videos are infrequent but well done, and he makes no money from them. He sites his sources and does a great job of tracking down primary sources, all of which are linked. One of his oft repeated idea…

[flagged]

Re: The Earth is getting greener

#60
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for posting this. I wanted to read a reasonable voice for a while, and I couldn't find anything. Search engines, traditional and LLM-based (ie ChatGPT) will actively censor all dissident voices, and it's just so tiring being unable to have a conversation with someone or read an article that's based on some common ground, some common assumptions between you and the writer.

Replace "climate change" with "vaccine safety", would you write that same response? Watch me get downvoted for even mentioning the word let alone express a dissenting opinion.

Well, I would, but there's not that many of us. By 'us' meaning people who are willing and able to leave emotional attachments out of the fact-seeking process.
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