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Boeing ousts 737 MAX chief

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Re: Boeing ousts 737 MAX chief

#51

Post by mikece »

rmbyrro wrote: post #20
lp4vn wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Makes me wonder how Boeing can avoid descending into bankruptcy at this point with multiple major projects having significant issues, recalls, and safety issues. Boeing is a duopoly with Airbus and for putting in your hands in a brand new Airbus you will have to join the queue and wait five years. So they benefit from the lack of competition, if the merger with McDonnel had never happened, probably this situation wo…

Embraer seems to have the highest standards, or very close to highest, in the industry now. But I think it's unlikely that they'll be capable and willing to compete with Boeing or Airbus in the near future.

I can't help but wonder how successful a project it would be if Embraer built a 757 clone (but with modern engines and cabin). If executed correctly that could put Embraer on an equal footing with Boeing and Airbus in the narrowbody market (and their C-390 is a widebody that could be modified into a passenger carrier...).

Re: Boeing ousts 737 MAX chief

#54

Post by sonicanatidae »

pg_1234 wrote: post #43
ics wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While many here won't disagree in general, be wary of holding this sentiment as dogma. There can be bad apples in engineering, and MBAs who can see that whether or not they have the knowledge or experience to make it better themselves. Whether or not they can (or want to) make the next step of hiring better or more honest engineers is what matters then. (I'm not optimistic about Boeing here, but hey.)

> There can be bad apples in engineering, So true ... Jack Welch was an engineer.

>Jack Welch was an engineer.

That's a funny way of spelling "Self-entitled jackass, who would spit on his own mother for a nickel", but I'll accept it.

Edit: I guess the DVs are just ignorant idiots. here is just one example of how stellar of a guy ole Jack was:

Under Welch's leadership, GE waged a twenty-year battle with the Environmental Protection Agency and New York State over polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs) that the company dumped into the Hudson River at its capacitor products division plant in Hudson Falls, New York.

Re: Boeing ousts 737 MAX chief

#55

Post by itslennysfault »

OldGuyInTheClub wrote: post #44

Ablative management: Layered heat shield of dispensable people that burn off to protect the capsule with the execs.

Exactly what I was thinking (but much less cleverly worded). We KNOW these issues are the result of pressure from the top to maximize profit despite pushback from engineers.

Re: Boeing ousts 737 MAX chief

#56

Post by bombcar »

ics wrote: post #34
tr_user wrote: post #6

Steps in the right direction, let's get rid of more engineers and replace them with more MBAs. > However, a person familiar with the decision and who asked not to be identified commenting on sensitive personnel decisions, confirmed that Clark’s leaving was not voluntary. > Clark is an engineer. His successor Ringgold has business degrees. However she began her aviation career performing avionics systems maintenance a…

While many here won't disagree in general, be wary of holding this sentiment as dogma. There can be bad apples in engineering, and MBAs who can see that whether or not they have the knowledge or experience to make it better themselves. Whether or not they can (or want to) make the next step of hiring better or more honest engineers is what matters then. (I'm not optimistic about Boeing here, but hey.)

Sometimes (as rare as you expect, likely) an MBA has the tooling to fight back against the standard business pressures to cut costs, whereas an engineer is basically defenseless.

Quite rare.

Re: Boeing ousts 737 MAX chief

#58

Post by djmips »

legitster wrote: post #48
gumby wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was actually a QA problem — a set of design issues starting at the front of the process. All QC can do is identify problems after they have occurred. As the saying goes, “you can’t test quality into a product.”

I guess I am a bit confused. Someone was supposed to be checking the bolts before the plane left the facility and they didn't. That seems to be a QC process issue more than a QA issue. But that also seems like splitting hairs. The problem is not one of engineering design, to OP's post.

How do we know that it was just 'someone was supposed to be checking the bolts before the plane left the facility and they didn't'. Because I'm not sure it's actually been fully revealed where the problem was. And despite the production issues, I'm of the opinion that the door-plug design should have been fail safe like the other doors where just pressure prevents them from being opened during flight. And another thing, passing the buck to QA doesn't let engineering off the hook since QC in this setting is a part of the engineering!

Re: Boeing ousts 737 MAX chief

#59

Post by ivan_gammel »

thriftwy wrote: post #30
bobthepanda wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is really hard. China, Russia and Japan have tried state sponsored schemes without success. Bombardier of Canada had to throw in the towel, and Embraer of Brazil almost did. Part of the problem is also that airlines have been very good at squeezing the duopoly while demanding ever more. The competition, if it manages to get a plane in the air, usually isn’t as fuel efficient and so the airlines have mostly not bee…

Russia has a fleet of ~200 Superjet planes which are handling a significant fraction of domestic traffic, but it's indeed not clear whether any more may be built after the 2022 sanctions. They also currently do not have engine replacements.

>They also currently do not have engine replacements.

They demonstrated localized version of SSJ-100 with PD-8 engine in 2023. I'm not sure if it actually flew, but there were at least ground tests of the fully assembled aircraft.

Re: Boeing ousts 737 MAX chief

#60

Post by bombcar »

brianwawok wrote: post #9
mikece wrote: post #3

A friend of mine who used to work for Boeing said the downward trend started when they acquired McDonnell Douglas and the MD bean counters took over a lot of top positions at Boeing, displacing engineers. After that cost-cutting became more of an obsession than building awesome aircraft. Makes me wonder how Boeing can avoid descending into bankruptcy at this point with multiple major projects having significant issue…

There is so little competition, and it would be so expensive to spin something up… I could see it sputtering along for many years. Who can disrupt this? Need space X level money and research, and not sure the profit potential is as high.

I'm sure SpaceX could build a jet if they wanted to.

I'm also certain they don't want to.

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