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Kagi Sidekick (alpha)

sidekick.kagi.com

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Re: Kagi Sidekick (alpha)

#51

Post by ubutler »

paranoidxprod wrote: post #16
freediver wrote: post #12

Kagi founder here. This is very early (alpha) concept built by a single Kagi Labs developer in a few weeks. The proper infrastruture and product is not built yet. We are launching a prototype to get feedback and gauge demand. Why does this exist? It would be an efficient way for us to build and expand our own index. Assuming users of this would be Kagi users, we would expand our index by tens of thousands of high qua…

Thank you for the explanation! While I agree with others that AI can take away from a products core vision, I’ve been very happy with Kagi’s path and roadmap. I feel like the AI products that you guys have released have served well as complements to search, and hope the trend continues. Hopefully this helps with indexing while offering a cool service to small creators! Edit: I forgot to say, the change where a `?` ap…

RE your edit, I’m assuming you’re already aware that Kagi lets you create custom bangs, but just in case you’re not, you can create your own shortcuts that when preceded by an exclamation mark like !so can redirect to or search other websites. I use this to append ‘site:reddit.com’ when I add !r to a query, for example.

Re: Kagi Sidekick (alpha)

#52

Post by nicce »

Nevermark wrote: post #33
nicce wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet. If you want to be better than Google, you need to avoid Google's mistakes.

Tiny Kagi has already shown an ability to produce better results than massive Google, despite them both dealing with the same SEO site gaming/structuring. Which is the reverse of what would be expected if Google's greater resources were also focused on quality. Kagi already dodges the SEO bullet. Disclaimer: I pay for Kagi. You should too!

> the same SEO site gaming/structuring.

This isn’t totally true. They can dodge a lot of stuff, because optimisations target Google’s algorithms, not Kagis. And Google also has conflicting intrests on same cases to let them just be.

I have paid for long time as well. But this brings new ”attack vector”, which is important to consider.

Re: Kagi Sidekick (alpha)

#53

Post by nicce »

dvaun wrote: post #37
nicce wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet. If you want to be better than Google, you need to avoid Google's mistakes.

This seems like a problem of the search space rather than solely Google's. How are you supposed to guard a system which, by its nature, provides financial incentive to others to game it? No matter what weights and checks are put in place, some observers will notice how their rankings change and make appropriate modifications. This isn't solved by Kagi's product, either. I'm a happy user and use it as my daily driver.…

That is true. But you can still try to learn from others mistakes to make it as hard as possible?

Re: Kagi Sidekick (alpha)

#54

Post by nicce »

al_borland wrote: post #31
nicce wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet. If you want to be better than Google, you need to avoid Google's mistakes.

With Kagi’s customers being users, not advertisers, they can put in features to mitigate against problems caused by SEO, like how Kagi bundles up all the “Top X abcdefg” lists that turned Google into trash.

The parent context was:

> Ie user activity on embedded sites helps indicate interest in Kagi index updates.

Doesn’t this mean anyone? And once someone fakes user activity, that make it useless measure in the end.

Re: Kagi Sidekick (alpha)

#55

Post by freediver »

quinncom wrote: post #38
freediver wrote: post #12

Kagi founder here. This is very early (alpha) concept built by a single Kagi Labs developer in a few weeks. The proper infrastruture and product is not built yet. We are launching a prototype to get feedback and gauge demand. Why does this exist? It would be an efficient way for us to build and expand our own index. Assuming users of this would be Kagi users, we would expand our index by tens of thousands of high qua…

Hi Vlad, How will you prevent someone from connecting Sidekick to a website that appears at first to be a small website but eventually fills with LLM-generated SEO keywords and ads? You might be able to manually review sites when they first sign up for Sidekick, but once the channel is open for them to inject content into Kagi's index, what's to stop them from abusing their privileged position?

That is a great question. Well we first have to ask what would be the purpose of someone going through the trouble to create such (LLM generated) spammy SEO content? The answer (for the majority of web at least now) is to monetize it with ads/affiliate links. If that is the case then the answer is easy as we already penalize sites with ads/trackers on them for our general web search, and completely boot them out of our own index.

In parallel, we are developing LLM-content detector technology to be more efficient at detecting such content regardless of how it is monetised (and we will offer this as an API once developed).

Re: Kagi Sidekick (alpha)

#56

Post by janfoeh »

Nevermark wrote: post #33
nicce wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet. If you want to be better than Google, you need to avoid Google's mistakes.

Tiny Kagi has already shown an ability to produce better results than massive Google, despite them both dealing with the same SEO site gaming/structuring. Which is the reverse of what would be expected if Google's greater resources were also focused on quality. Kagi already dodges the SEO bullet. Disclaimer: I pay for Kagi. You should too!

Paying Kagi customer here as well.

Kagi is leagues better than now-Google. It is about on par, slightly worse than the Google of yore — not by their own fault, but because they operate in a much more professionalized, difficult, hostile web.

They didn't dodge the SEO bullet — nobody has aimed at them yet.

Re: Kagi Sidekick (alpha)

#57

Post by nicce »

sedatk wrote: post #14

I've been a paying Kagi user for a few months now. The only thing that made me miss Google results was immediate answers: the answers that are extracted from a prominent web page and shown directly, so you don't have to click the link. Actually, Kagi has some of that for certain queries, but it's not as extensive as Google's. So, contrary to the most of the comments here, I support their AI endeavors for the sake of…

I have personally started to avoid Google’s and others immediate answers, because they are often very wrong because they are picked out of the contex.

They try to show what you want to see, but it often means something else.

Re: Kagi Sidekick (alpha)

#58

Post by freediver »

greazy wrote: post #30
freediver wrote: post #12

Kagi founder here. This is very early (alpha) concept built by a single Kagi Labs developer in a few weeks. The proper infrastruture and product is not built yet. We are launching a prototype to get feedback and gauge demand. Why does this exist? It would be an efficient way for us to build and expand our own index. Assuming users of this would be Kagi users, we would expand our index by tens of thousands of high qua…

Kagi user here and scientist. I think kagi sidekick would be very well received in the bioinformatics space. Lots of complex docs that require end users to digest large complex data. Can it be tuned to only point users to the docs and not answer questions?

Yes, summary mode is completely optional (and turned off by default as you can see in our demo).

Re: Kagi Sidekick (alpha)

#59

Post by freediver »

nicoburns wrote: post #44
freediver wrote: post #12

Kagi founder here. This is very early (alpha) concept built by a single Kagi Labs developer in a few weeks. The proper infrastruture and product is not built yet. We are launching a prototype to get feedback and gauge demand. Why does this exist? It would be an efficient way for us to build and expand our own index. Assuming users of this would be Kagi users, we would expand our index by tens of thousands of high qua…

Is it possible to use the search functionality without the "AI smarts"? I can see a good site search service being a great addition to some websites I run, but I would absolutely not want to push an AI chatbot on my users.

Yes, glad to see the skepticism towards AI, this is why it is turned off by default even in our demo.

Re: Kagi Sidekick (alpha)

#60

Post by kazinator »

neilv wrote: post #50
kazinator wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kagi is Japanese for key, right? We search with a search key. If I'm getting it right. Do you know that "sidekick" is aibó in Japanese (相棒)? Notice the "AI" in it?

Sony AIBO. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIBO

Yeah, what are the odds that the Japanese would use up the obvious Japanese words for tech stuff.
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