Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

apnews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 286 posts

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#51

Post by itsoktocry »

_ea1k wrote: post #12
itsoktocry wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there is such thing as manufacturing investment without subsidization any more. And it most often results in the Winner's Curse: the entity providing the greatest subsidies win's the "investment", but they give up so much in the process that the economic benefits are wiped out. See: Tesla in Buffalo, VW in Ontario, FoxConn in Wisconsin.

I'm not sure if I agree, tbh. You've certainly brought up some good cases of failures, but what about: Tesla in Sparks NV, BMW in Greer SC, or Mercedes in Alabama and SC? It seems like those have more than paid for themselves by now. In at least one of those cases, they've had huge regional impacts.

>Tesla in Sparks NV

Ironically, you go to the website and there's a fake image of the factory, based on previous promises.

I can't speak to the others, but I'm sure there's some positive outliers!

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#52

Post by antisthenes »

brandonagr2 wrote: post #27
itsoktocry wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For context: Tesla is guiding for $10+B a year capex spending for the next 3 years. I know people around these parts think that Tesla has uncovered some magical factory building ability, but can you even consider the fact that maybe Toyota knows what they are doing? > Toyota is still under-investing in EV. $1.3B is nothing. This is one factory.

What about Toyota's plans makes you think they will ever catch up to everyone else with EVs?

Toyota has probably shipped more battery capacity in hybrid cars than most EV manufacturers to date.

They don't need to catch up to anything.

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#53

Post by luuurker »

explaininjs wrote: post #44
brandonagr2 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about Toyota's plans makes you think they will ever catch up to everyone else with EVs?

The fact that they already sell the most popular electric vehicle in the US and Japan, and have done so since they launched the very beginning of electric vehicles, over 25 years ago? (Pruis)

Hybrid. I'm nitpicking, but current full electric Toyota cars are not that good or popular.

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#54

Post by mbesto »

itsoktocry wrote: post #23
kjksf wrote: post #7

$1.3B seems like a lot of money but it isn't for a car factory, especially spread over many years. For context: Tesla is guiding for $10+B a year capex spending for the next 3 years. Nevada factory took $6.2B and Tesla plans to spend additional $3.6B Toyota is still under-investing in EV. $1.3B is nothing. https://www.tesla.com/blog/continuing-our-investment-nevada

> For context: Tesla is guiding for $10+B a year capex spending for the next 3 years. I know people around these parts think that Tesla has uncovered some magical factory building ability, but can you even consider the fact that maybe Toyota knows what they are doing? > Toyota is still under-investing in EV. $1.3B is nothing. This is one factory.

> I know people around these parts think that Tesla has uncovered some magical factory building ability, but can you even consider the fact that maybe Toyota knows what they are doing?

Not a Tesla fanboy (I'm turning mine in for a Rivian), but the OP wasn't saying this, not sure how you got that conclusion. They are saying for a car company they are (1) way behind and (2) any investments they are making won't reach fruition for years, nor likely make a dent in the industry.

Outside of MB and the Chinese EVs, the design of Tesla motors is far superior. Their build quality and finishing is awful however - something the traditional players do really well.

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#55

Post by mywittyname »

thinkingtoilet wrote: post #35
jonnycomputer wrote: post #22

More Biden policy winning back investment in America, is my take. Update: People who may not have been following closely what Biden has accomplished during his Presidency might have questions. In this case, the Inflation Reduction Act specifically has credits to encourage battery manufacture in the US. https://www.orrick.com/en/Insights/2022/11/Section-45X-of-th ... More generally, the IRA and the Infrastructure Inve…

I'm left of Bernie and voted for Biden but I tend to not like takes like this. Is there a specific policy that he championed that is responsible for this? To me, it's like when people cheer a 'record stock market' as an example of a president's abilities, but fail to mention every single modern president has had a record stock market at some point in their term.

> Is there a specific policy that he championed that is responsible for this?

This was something the President activity campaigned on (Build Back Better), pushed through Congress, and signed into law as The Inflation Reduction Act.

While it did little to reduce inflation (outside of medicine), it was a massive win for people who wanted more investment in clean power generation, more funds for the ACA, lower drug prices, and higher taxes on certain corporate entities.

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#56

Post by trgn »

costanzaDynasty wrote: post #40

Globalization is rolling back. It's about to be boom times in America as long as the politicians from all parties can actually move from one troth to another and actually pass bills.

Seems to be almost daily news stories about huge capital investment in manufacturing in the US, a couple billion here, a couple billion there. Was I just blind to these 5-10 years ago?

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#57

Post by smileysteve »

trgn wrote: post #56
costanzaDynasty wrote: post #40

Globalization is rolling back. It's about to be boom times in America as long as the politicians from all parties can actually move from one troth to another and actually pass bills.

Seems to be almost daily news stories about huge capital investment in manufacturing in the US, a couple billion here, a couple billion there. Was I just blind to these 5-10 years ago?

Targeted subsidies, the most recent bill to the IRA may be Cash For Clunkers.

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#58

Post by trgn »

earthwalker99 wrote: post #9
itsoktocry wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ford made these same promises 2 years ago then bailed when the interest rate rose. Sometimes investment makes sense, and then things change and it doesn't make sense anymore. That's fair, isn't it?

Fair? What would that even mean? These empty promises are how we ended up electing Trump the first time and it's virtually guaranteeing that we'll elect him a second time. Rural Kentucky is in horrible shape and a lot of people here were placing hope in this, much like they have so many other empty promises from their leaders, so at least stop acting surprised when the consequences show themselves.

> Rural Kentucky is in horrible shape and a lot of people here were placing hope in this,

"Rural KY" is not all that big, a couple million people, if that, and solely exists to the rest of the US for low-key victim-blaming election cycle human interest dreck.

These news stories about manufacturing expansion are all about development just outside large towns and cities, like bowling green, louisville, cincinnati, ... and will draw similar demographic than if they were in Texas, Georgia, or North Carolina.

And fwiw, just nitpicking, "rural ky" can also include the bluegrass, and that's just plain comfortably rich.

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#59

Post by kjksf »

explaininjs wrote: post #44
brandonagr2 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about Toyota's plans makes you think they will ever catch up to everyone else with EVs?

The fact that they already sell the most popular electric vehicle in the US and Japan, and have done so since they launched the very beginning of electric vehicles, over 25 years ago? (Pruis)

Ignoring that Prius is a hybrid and not an EV:

Toyota sold 30k in 2023, the lowest number ever.

Tesla sold 400k of Model Y and 210k of Model 3 and 31k of Model X in 2024.

So Model Y outsold Prius by 13x in US in 2023.

---

https://carfigures.com/us-market-brand/toyota/prius-family

https://cleantechnica.com/2024/01/29/tesla-model-ys-huge-gro...

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#60

Post by api »

newsclues wrote: post #29
api wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true globally too. China heavily subsidizes their industrial base as do many other countries. When everyone else is subsidizing you have to subsidize too or you lose.

You can have tax policy that makes up for unfair subsidies or simply block those countries from your market.

The first is a subsidy by another name. The second has a lot of knock-on effects unless you own the whole supply chain, and nobody does anymore.
Post reply on HN