Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Dangerous Things You Were Taught In School

forbes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 87 posts

Re: Dangerous Things You Were Taught In School

#51

Post by UK-AL »

gaius wrote: post #49
UK-AL wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except many exist today, and there mostly populated by the middle class with ridiculously low levels of poor people. Like 1% on free school meals and majority were tutored for the entry test? Most poor people can't afford tutors. With stats like that, they REINFORCE class structure, not break it. And do poor people want to pay for the education of the elites? Which is what current grammars effectivly do.

That is only because there are so few grammar schools left. When they were all over the country, anyone who passed the 11-plus, regardless of their family's wealth, could go. These days they are intended to reinforce class structure. You don't need a left-wing, if you don't have a poor working class...

Even in the past they had relatively little working class people in them. Even then they had tutors for people getting in, my dad went to grammar school(We're not working class, his parents were business owners) and he was tutored. His 63 now. Even I was tutored for the 11+(My county has them).

The only reason for populist support for them at the moment(Daily Mail, Telegraph, UKIP, BNP and other populist parties all support them), is most people THINK their kids will get in although most won't(By definition). When they come realise that, populist support will disappear again, and they will go out favour once again.

Re: Dangerous Things You Were Taught In School

#52

Post by robododo »

kitsune_ wrote: post #17

Errr? I don't know what schools are like in the Unites States, but I was probably taught the exact opposite of what is presented in this Forbes Article. For instance: "The people in charge have all the answers." > My history teacher would like to have word with you.

Speaking from anecdote, my relatively crappy, rural, public education in the USA was not like this. I'm guessing the article is written as hyperbole, not to paint a picture of the average US public school.

Of course, it's been ~15 years since high school for me. Perhaps things in the USA have greatly degraded in that time. Public education standards are a major a concern for me with respect to my son's education.

Re: Dangerous Things You Were Taught In School

#53

Post by Thrymr »

gravitronic wrote: post #25

Having gone through north american public schools I definitely agree with most of the article's points. However most of those graphs make absolutely no sense. Clearly the author was being a free spirit on "how to make a graph" day.

The author of the Forbes article also has a blog which features this sort of tongue-in-cheek graphics:

http://thisisindexed.com

Re: Dangerous Things You Were Taught In School

#54

Post by parfe »

mhurron wrote: post #46
johnohara wrote: post #41

True danger is serious business. Approaching an unexploded IED is dangerous. So is going in to reactor #2 to pump out radioactive water. There's a difference between incorrect and dangerous.

Dangerous does not have to mean deadly.

Said from your safe little bubble. Dangerous is "I might misstep by half an inch and orphan the children."

The college educated computer workers who post here haven't experienced danger since climbing trees as children. And certainly don't experience danger professionally.

Roofing a house is dangerous. Delivering Pizza is dangerous.

Picking between State U vs Private U? Choosing between Python and Ruby? Choosing between iOS vs Android for your initial deployment? Choosing VC A over VC B? Telling your Boss he's wrong? Calling any of that dangerous is an insult to people who face real danger daily.

Re: Dangerous Things You Were Taught In School

#55

Post by goblin89 »

This one's great IMO: “Days off are always more fun than sitting in the classroom.”

Not exactly well-phrased—I believe prolonged sitting is indeed not quite fun for various physiological reasons. However, this makes it fair:

“You are trained from a young age to base your life around dribbles of allocated vacation.”

It appears to be about splitting life into work and vacation despite the alternative of doing things you love and loving things you do. (It's hard to convince people, though. They continue hate most of they regular 9-to-6 day and watch TV in the evening.)

Re: Dangerous Things You Were Taught In School

#56

Post by planetguy »

ap22213 wrote: post #11

When I was a poor kid from the rust belt, I dreamed of becoming an adult and getting a Phd. and talking deeply with the intellectual elite. I never got that Phd. but I became happily upper middle class, and thus got to hang out with a lot of Phds., often from good schools. Not surprisingly, many of them came from upper-class areas, and upper middle class or wealthy families. What surprised me of this bunch was the ge…

How would you distinguish an academic acquaintance with curiosity, passion, and depth from one who lacked those qualities?

Re: Dangerous Things You Were Taught In School

#57

Post by jerf »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #28
kitsune_ wrote: post #17

Errr? I don't know what schools are like in the Unites States, but I was probably taught the exact opposite of what is presented in this Forbes Article. For instance: "The people in charge have all the answers." > My history teacher would like to have word with you.

This is a great observation. The list is bewildering to me as well. I think the author is trying to play up this strawman of conservative authoritarianism and perhaps reflects her upbringing but I don't think its typical of the American educational experience. "The best and brightest follow the rules" bothers me the most. From a young age I've been taught by the establishment that inventors and industrialists who pur…

They are not talking about teachers standing up in front of you and saying literally, "I have all the answers. Shut and become good factory workers." They are talking about the fact that you have a few teachers telling you to question authority... while you are sitting in seats in front of them, not making noise, taking tests when told on what told, coming in and leaving on a schedule... and probably even the teachers telling you to question authority won't, say, actually let you walk out of the classroom and play basketball, no matter how much they feebly protest that you should question authority. (And if they did, they wouldn't be teaching for long. The system would not permit it.)

Yeah. You had a couple of people mouth some words about nonconformity, while spending hours every day inextricably enmeshed so deeply in a system built around conformity that you apparently can't even see the conformity, if you think that a few people mouthing words without actions was enough to counteract it. The teachers said some words while you were embodied in a contrary system.

Mind you, all that conformity isn't necessarily a bad thing. I like civilization. But I think it is still important to see it, and choose it when you want it, and be aware of what is going on so others can't use it against you, attacking you on a level you can't even perceive.

Also, this article is tripe. I shouldn't have had to elaborate on it in this manner when it should have said it. And those are clearly something more like 5 points than 9; numbered lists strike again.

Re: Dangerous Things You Were Taught In School

#58

Post by solson »

tgrass wrote: post #40
randomdata wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opportunity is opportunity. If you weren't in school, you could have worked 30 hours per week as waiter plus the time you were studying. Realistically, if we assume you work for minimum wage, you're going to be around $200K short by the time you finish a four year program, and that does not include any costs associated with actually going to school, which could easily run you another $100K+, depending on the circumst…

This is incorrect. It is unlikely the average individual will work more than forty hours, so the opportunity cost is realistically the difference: 10 hours. At 7.25 an hour, pre-tax annual that's a mere $4k, for a four year degree that's $16K. Out of undergrad I went from a possible annual income of $20K (qualified for nothing but waiting tables) to $50K. The opportunity costs were paid for in the first six months.

The concept of opportunity cost has nothing to do with the "average individual" it is the cost of the "next best alternative usually forgone". I did not go to college, during most of my "college years" (18-22) I worked a total of 50-80 hours at as many 3 different jobs. That was my next best alternative. I still work 50-70 hours, between different jobs and businesses and transitioned from working class to upper middle class. In retrospect, I can see, for me, the opportunity cost of attending college would have been very high...

Re: Dangerous Things You Were Taught In School

#59

Post by roc »

PaperclipTaken wrote: post #32
rglover wrote: post #4

I wish I could recall the name, but I read an essay on the general concept of this topic not too long ago. Essentially the author referenced how schools are stratified into a series of groups: lower class, lower middle class, upper middle class, and elite (not sure if these are 100% accurate). The author explained (from a series of in-person observations) the differences in education at each of the various levels. Ch…

I can relate to this based on my experiences from high school. I don't think that things are structured like this intentionally. (I think that few teachers and principal's would intentionally hold back the lower class students) But, if you have a kid who tends to do his homework less, think school is 'not cool,' and in general doesn't like authority (something I feel was more prevalent among the poorer students in my…

There's definitely something to this.

If the students won't cooperate/behave/listen, how could the teacher ever hope to progress beyond reinforcement of "you need to cooperate/behave/listen"?

It's sort of like the old adage that you need to understand the rules before you can break them. If one doesn't understand why you have to listen to the instructor, they're far less likely to be productive in a setting where interruptions are expected/encouraged.

Post reply on HN