The Wetware Crisis: The Dead Sea Effect (2008) • Hacker News Board

Re: The Wetware Crisis: The Dead Sea Effect (2008)

#51

Post by moritzwarhier » Thu, Feb 08, 2024, 8:54 PM UTC

> The IT hiring process is broken. Amen. Not only is the IT hiring process broken in many organizations, the entire approach to IT is often broken. (...), Ruby Raley and I wrote an article for Cutter IT Journal that stated that an approach modeled after professional sport teams could well be far more effective, but no one has yet hired me to try it out.

Does this approach also apply to age? E.g., older programmers either take some higher-ranking position (management, product owner etc) or they get replaced?

Re: The Wetware Crisis: The Dead Sea Effect (2008)

#52

Post by Terr_ » Thu, Feb 08, 2024, 9:09 PM UTC

forgetfreeman wrote: post #7

It's thinkpieces like this that make me believe that IT professionals specifically and white collar workers generally would benefit greatly from a mandatory 24 month stint on a construction crew. One of the most important lessons any job foreman can learn is that every crew needs at least one lame duck. A single talented carpenter with an energetic but otherwise totally unskilled helper can accomplish more in a shift…

> as valuable as

I'd like to preemptively emphasize the distinction between "important to have" versus "marginal price to acquire", before folks start talking past one-another with different interpretations of "valuable."

Re: The Wetware Crisis: The Dead Sea Effect (2008)

#53

Post by Terr_ » Thu, Feb 08, 2024, 9:15 PM UTC

quickthrower2 wrote: post #13

forgetfreeman wrote: post #7

It's thinkpieces like this that make me believe that IT professionals specifically and white collar workers generally would benefit greatly from a mandatory 24 month stint on a construction crew. One of the most important lessons any job foreman can learn is that every crew needs at least one lame duck. A single talented carpenter with an energetic but otherwise totally unskilled helper can accomplish more in a shift…

Hold on! The construction analogy doesn’t apply because in a lot of code bases, probably most there are very few menial tasks. Some code bases need IQ 120 + to do anything non trivial in and maybe even higher. So there are menial tasks, but menial like “yeah just redraft this architectural drawing for me mate, to take account of the new 2021 fire regs, I got actual brainy stuff to get on with”. Pairing senior and jun…

> not because the junior is an idiot, but because they have stuff to learn

There's also value--sometimes hard to capture--in getting an external perspective on things. In a sense, they are a new user/customer for internal systems and processes, and can identify pain points that veterans have largely learned to ignore or bypass.

Re: The Wetware Crisis: The Dead Sea Effect (2008)

#54

Post by trashtensor » Fri, Feb 09, 2024, 5:54 AM UTC

arwhatever wrote: post #17

trashtensor wrote: post #6

I've job hopped a lot over the years and now i make about 30x what i did at my first software job. Now I'm sticking around though despite some of the craziness that i'd prefer not to deal with mostly just to prove to myself i can stick around at a job for more than 2 years.

I’ve done much the same, but I’m curious if you have any other insights to share? I’ve mostly settled into a place with a good pay rate-to-work expectations ratio, but I’ve also contemplated optimizing for pay alone.

i wouldnt say i have any particularly groundbreaking insights. Get things done, don't be afraid to learn new things as you need to. The best people i work with at any given time are the ones who are willing to try stuff and fail (but they probably wont because it seems like half of succeeding is just trying). So many devs out there get stuck because they are comfortable in their lane and are unwilling to get adventurous.

in terms of optimizing for pay vs lifestyle, i spent some years optimizing for lifestyle but im definitely in optimize for pay mode right now. Make a bit of a bag and get out and go back to optimizing for lifestyle. Things are better that way.

Re: The Wetware Crisis: The Dead Sea Effect (2008)

#55

Post by TeMPOraL » Fri, Feb 09, 2024, 5:59 AM UTC

BerislavLopac wrote: post #50

TeMPOraL wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alright, so how can I automate away daily standups, timecards, semi-regular random corporate/legal paperwork, and everything about dealing with devops team?

You can't -- but that's not menial work.

To me, it is, and/or it generates an infinite stream of one/off unique menial work.