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Write code for the web

mrmr.io

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Re: Write code for the web

#51

Post by bmitc »

hnfong wrote: post #47
bmitc wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You left out that they lock down anything that isn't those things. I tried developing an app of my own on macOS, not using Swift and their tools, and it's a huge pain. They have deprecated and version locked OpenGL for no other reason than to push their own tools. Trying to just get an external DLL to load was nearly impossible. Anything cross-platform needs to be converted down to their tooling, such as Vulkan to Me…

"I tried developing on , actively avoided using their tools and tech, and the experience sucked because nothing I tried was supported."

It wasn't that it was not supported. It is that Apple is openly antagonistic to and actively blocks anything that isn't theirs.

And you also left out key information. I don't have any issues with the same development on Windows or Linux. Apple is the outlier and isn't doing some reasonable thing.

Apple is by far the most troublesome platform to develop for. They literally make you do it their way, and you cannot recover any of that work for other platforms.

Re: Write code for the web

#52

Post by ederamen »

Apple has done an incredible job of gaslighting developers into believe they care about them and are making generous investment into APIs and tooling, while simultaneously doing everything in their power to lock those devs into the platform and and force them to spend their limited time/resources learning the Apple-exclusive tech stack.

The intolerable part for me is that after you've spent years investing in learning their (non-portable outside of Apple) languages and APIs, they can reject anything you build for mobile for any reason, and you ultimately have zero recourse.

In other areas of software you could take the skills you've learned to your next job/project - but as Apple is moving more towards declarative frameworks where you aren't supposed to think about what's going on under the hood (I.e. SwitfUI), the amount of actual deep, transferable software engineering skills you gain from working with these frameworks approaches zero.

The investment just doesn't feel worth it to me, when there are so many other things I could be learning to advance my career.

Re: Write code for the web

#53

Post by worksonmine »

zshrc wrote: post #2

Apple provides thousands of APIs to make developing on the platform easier, has created their own programming language that integrates nicely with the platform and has a fully integrated IDE that works with both above. Sure, buddy… They don’t care about you unless you develop for their platform. And who can blame? The above is a terribly expensive and timely investment.

They didn't have to develop their own language. It's part of the lock in.

Re: Write code for the web

#54

Post by maxlamb »

host0 wrote: post #45
ahmedfromtunis wrote: post #15

Early on, I made the choice to not to invest in learning native mobile development. I focused all my limited time on the web, and I think that, for once, I made the right choice. Today, one can build amazing stuff for the browser. And, in my very humble opinion, the vast majority of apps should've been WebApps — except for maybe Uber, Google Drive, and games. I worked in the journalism business, and, in my country, t…

PWAs, especially those built with an offline-first approach, are so much closer to the native experience than those from half a decade ago. However what concerns me is Google's and Apple's incentives to help them get better to a point where they can rival native apps which could hit their bottom line.

I think you meant Google's and Apple's incentives to make them (PWAs) worse...

Re: Write code for the web

#55

Post by bmitc »

hnfong wrote: post #42
bmitc wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never understood how Apple gets away with it and even more than that gets a huge amount of love. Whereas, if Microsoft just looks at you wrong, pitchforks are out. I'm not cheerleading any company here, but it has been frustrating in my career where people absolutely refuse to touch or even consider anything Microsoft related but love their Apple computer. Apple is probably hundreds of times more agressive, mo…

As an Apple user , the experience is generally fine, especially when compared to Microsoft. Most of the complaints about Apple seem to have come from devs. And in contrast, Microsoft [in]famously loves developers (Balmer on stage...)

I was an Apple user and even fanboy for many years. I left because they ignored macOS and then started making it iOS like. I have far less issues on Windows than I do on macOS.

Apple sucks dealing with anything that doesn't have their name on it. External monitors have terrible support because Apple refuses to implement a specific protocol making that nice, like everyone else does. You basically have to use Apple's monitors or their overpriced officially supported LG monitors they sell in the Apple Store if you want an integrated monitor experience. Several other issues with Apple exist with peripherals. I have to make special router settings in my home because my partner's work Macbook can't switch between the mesh network. My partner also had to get IT to give her admin access so that she could rename iTunes because it was the only reliable way to keep iTunes from opening every time her non-Apple Bluetooth headphones connected. Search about what it takes to rename an app like iTunes. It is literally insane.

Re: Write code for the web

#56

Post by toastercat »

Reading this reminded me of two recent experiences I've had with Apple products, myself being solely a Windows and Linux user my whole life.

1. Friend gave me his old iPhone. I'm already happy with my current Android phone, so decided I would turn into a Retro emulation machine. I went to install Retroarch only to find that the steps for installing Retroarch on iOS is convoluted, doesn't allow auto update of cores, must be sideloaded with AltStore unless you have a jail broken phone, and apps installed with AltStore expire after 7 days if you don't pay $100/year to Apple for a developer account. I gave up and the phone is collecting dust in a drawer now.

2. Mom has an iPhone with 512GB storage that she filled with photos and videos. She's not keen on the iCloud pricing. No worries, I'll just back up her photos on her 2TB laptop I bought her a while back. Simple right? Just transferring files from one device to another just 2 inches away with a USB cord. Nope. iPhone won't give me access to those photos from her PC because it's Windows. Let me try the Windows photo backup tool... failed, crashes, and iPhone disconnects. OK someone told me I can backup photos using iTunes, lets get that started. Oh wait, Apple encrypts the files in some proprietary format when I back them up. Let me just use what iCloud storage she has, back them up in batches and... oh she has the free tier, 5GB. That will take ages and its damn ridiculous that I have to rely on a cloud middleman to transfer files to a device sitting literally next to the iPhone. OK my last resort, I'll install Syncthing... oh... no Syncthing for iOS.

What ended up working was a $5 app on the AppStore called Moebius that is just a wrapper around an outdated Syncthing. The most frustrating experience were the amount of people online whose solutions were "just pay for iCloud bro!” The entire reason I'm doing this is to NOT do that.

Anyway, after those two experiences, I swore off Apple products. Not for me, and apparently not for normal people like my mom either.

Re: Write code for the web

#58

Post by izietto »

> Google has a bug. I have dynamic light/dark mode, and if I search on Google at night, the first page shows up in light mode. [...] In the morning, my laptop automatically switches back to light mode. [...] The people like me who use alternate search engines like DDG have already moved on years ago. The rest of the (overwhelming) majority is stuck with Google.

You don't move from Google for this bug because there's an easy workaround: F5 (aka refresh the page)

Re: Write code for the web

#59

Post by BuyMyBitcoins »

Years ago I decided to delve into learning Swift and native iOS development. I simply could not get accustomed to using XCode. The UI/UX of XCode is atrocious in a way that I’m struggling to articulate. I found myself constantly opening and closing panels just to click on icons that weren’t intuitively grouped together. To open one panel would forcefully minimize the other. It’s like a tenth of my time was dedicated towards “panel jockeying”.

I got the sense that Apple’s designers wanted to make an IDE that was visually pretty and minimalistic, not one that was low-friction for the developers. But IDE’s aren’t supposed to be minimalistic, they should be allowed to be as customizable and cluttered as each individual developer would like, according to the needs of what they trying to build.

Imagine a physical garage workstation. Whereas Visual Studio would let me make my workspace as cluttered and customizable as I would want, Apple would insist that I put each tool back in the box before grabbing the next one. This is what I mean about panel jockeying.

I’m curious if other developers feel the same way, of if my analogy makes sense.

Re: Write code for the web

#60

Post by throw156754228 »

ahmedfromtunis wrote: post #15

Early on, I made the choice to not to invest in learning native mobile development. I focused all my limited time on the web, and I think that, for once, I made the right choice. Today, one can build amazing stuff for the browser. And, in my very humble opinion, the vast majority of apps should've been WebApps — except for maybe Uber, Google Drive, and games. I worked in the journalism business, and, in my country, t…

So tired of junk apps cluttering up my phone and tablet. Examples: There's a parking station near me that has an app, the library photocopier has an app. Could all be done on the web.
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