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EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

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Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#51

Post by logifail »

jacquesm wrote: post #47
logifail wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> besides the RAF being British Umm, my ex-RAF friends worked all over the world, including being stationed in Germany, and participated in NATO exercises. "Der Spiegel reported that there are only enough missiles to make only four [of 128!] Eurofigher jets ready for combat" and VDL has seven kids. https://www.dw.com/en/only-4-of-germanys-128-eurofighter-jet... https://www.dw.com/en/german-troops-wait-8-years-for-new…

That doesn't make the joke less dumb.

It's not my joke. Perhaps the joke makes some people feel uncomfortable. Jokes can be like that.

If a NATO member had only 4 (four!) fighter jets ready for use out of a fleet of 128 (one hundred and twenty eight!)[0] we should also feel uncomfortable. That's not something to joke about.

[0] https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/bundeswehr-luftwa...

Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#52

Post by jacquesm »

logifail wrote: post #51
jacquesm wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't make the joke less dumb.

It's not my joke. Perhaps the joke makes some people feel uncomfortable. Jokes can be like that. If a NATO member had only 4 (four!) fighter jets ready for use out of a fleet of 128 (one hundred and twenty eight!)[0] we should also feel uncomfortable. That's not something to joke about. [0] https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/bundeswehr-luftwa...

It's you posting it here, not your friends from the RAF.

As for flight readiness: that has nothing to do with how many children von der Leyen has.

Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#55

Post by DropPanda »

logifail wrote: post #31
yurishimo wrote: post #13

As a knowledge worker who immigrated to the Netherlands in 2022 and also lives in Eindhoven, these insights and discussions are super interesting to me. Unlike most of my nearby expat peers, I didn't move here to work at ASML or Philips, but now that I'm here, it's undeniable; the appeal of working for such companies is huge. Obviously, companies want to make money, but the goals of the government have somewhat been…

> don't punish individuals and companies trying to get work done and benefit your economy Getting work done is one thing, why should locals support tax breaks for expats? "Technology companies including ASML Holding NV and Adyen NV called on the Dutch government to maintain a tax break that seeks to attract expatriates to the Netherlands. Ingrid Thijssen, head of the Confederation of Netherlands Industry and Employer…

I live in a Scandinavian country. Our welfare system is structured such that people are expected to withdraw from the tax pool during the beginning and end of life, and contribute to the pool in between.

Adult immigrants will benefit less from the system than locals over their lifetime, but may end up contributing as much. Adult immigrants with advanced degrees who come to work here for a few years and then move out are penalized quite severely by the tax system, to the point where I think it makes very little sense to do that.

On my locally quite high $80k annual income (STEM PhD, 40yo), my employer pays an additional $36k in taxes and pension. Then I pay $22k in income taxes and 25% VAT on everything I buy.

Why would anyone with an advanced degree from China, India or the U.S. come to work here? Lowering the taxes for a couple of years following immigration, possibly proportionally to level of education, would encourage immigration and would be ethically defensible.

Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#56

Post by NalNezumi »

jacquesm wrote: post #37
logifail wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> don't punish individuals and companies trying to get work done and benefit your economy Getting work done is one thing, why should locals support tax breaks for expats? "Technology companies including ASML Holding NV and Adyen NV called on the Dutch government to maintain a tax break that seeks to attract expatriates to the Netherlands. Ingrid Thijssen, head of the Confederation of Netherlands Industry and Employer…

As a local I support this. Simply because having more smart people eventually benefits Dutch society and the long term is far more important than the short term. Usually this argument is based in some for of jealousy, but consider: an expat gives up their current life to chance it all on another, has stupendously high private costs if they want to keep up with their family and has to start all over again from scratch…

Another supportive argument (especially for Europe, maybe not US) is that those knowledge workers have spent a considerable time, money, and effort to acquire that talent/skill-set, and unlike your own citizen your country spent *zero* euro paying for that.

Most European countries have heavy tax but very protective social services, including free education and universal healthcare, which only works because there's an expectation that when you come of age, you'll support the same system . So every citizen before turning adult (or paying taxes) are a net-debtor for society as a whole. Knowledge worker expats start at zero debt for you.

Worst thing for countries like this is if its citizen get educated there and the best talent just moves to greener pasture (SV etc).

If one can let go of their jealousy and see things practically, some tax incentive makes sense, but should be done smartly (not to cover rich people buying their way in while contributing zero long-term)

Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#57

Post by logifail »

jacquesm wrote: post #52
logifail wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not my joke. Perhaps the joke makes some people feel uncomfortable. Jokes can be like that. If a NATO member had only 4 (four!) fighter jets ready for use out of a fleet of 128 (one hundred and twenty eight!)[0] we should also feel uncomfortable. That's not something to joke about. [0] https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/bundeswehr-luftwa...

It's you posting it here, not your friends from the RAF. As for flight readiness: that has nothing to do with how many children von der Leyen has.

> As for flight readiness: that has nothing to do with how many children von der Leyen has

Indeed not. Perhaps that's the reason the joke is funny?

We could sanitise the joke to become "Germany's defence minister had more fingers than working fighter aircraft" I suppose. Would that be better?

The real issue is VdL's history of failure, not the jokes about it.

Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#58

Post by poisonborz »

jacquesm wrote: post #35
Moldoteck wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the pay smaller compared to other big companies in NL?

I'm not sure if I understand your question correctly, but if you mean the pay compared to US tech companies active in NL then I would say it depends very much on your specialization. Engineer: 40k and up, team lead: 70k and up, project manager: 90k and up. I don't have much data on other roles but the 'and up' is the big factor, depends on seniority and specific skills. What really strikes me is that an extremely hig…

That's truly sad if true and up to date. Your top of 70k for a staff engineer is a common senior salary at any software company in DACH area (working on totally boring tech like Salesforce or SAP). If that's for an industry as as unique as chip production, something is very off.

Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#59

Post by izacus »

jacquesm wrote: post #37
logifail wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> don't punish individuals and companies trying to get work done and benefit your economy Getting work done is one thing, why should locals support tax breaks for expats? "Technology companies including ASML Holding NV and Adyen NV called on the Dutch government to maintain a tax break that seeks to attract expatriates to the Netherlands. Ingrid Thijssen, head of the Confederation of Netherlands Industry and Employer…

As a local I support this. Simply because having more smart people eventually benefits Dutch society and the long term is far more important than the short term. Usually this argument is based in some for of jealousy, but consider: an expat gives up their current life to chance it all on another, has stupendously high private costs if they want to keep up with their family and has to start all over again from scratch…

How exactly does that benefit the country outside driving up the cost of living for locals (which can't afford rents, houses or other services), since they actually have to pay taxes and are outbid by foreigners which don't really contribute that much to the tax base or have any intention of staying beyond the time in which they extract maximum wealth?

Re: EU chip goal 'unrealistic' says ASML CEO

#60

Post by jszgembo1 »

Pete_arten wrote: post #30

I think it might not be completely unrealistic, after all, the goal of the Chips act is to support, to promote investments in the semiconductor industry. There are currently 7 factories in construction and 8 more in planning stages. This info is from December 2022, so by now I will assume something is already finished or in the final stages and possibly more plans have been made. Also, setting high goals might not be…

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