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Linus Torvalds flames Google kernel contributor over filesystem suggestion

lkml.iu.edu

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Re: Linus Torvalds flames Google kernel contributor over filesystem suggestion

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what did he use?

git was implemented in C. Someone asked him why he didn't choose C++ for it and he went on a rant basically saying C++ was bad, people that use it are subpar programmers, and that one of the advantages of choosing C is to weed out people who think C++ would have been a good choice. oddly enough I can't seem to find the original rant, if someone can provide that I'd be greatful. edit: to give context to my original po…

He was talking about not letting C++ code into the Linux kernel.

As a C++ programmer, my cope for this is that back then's C++ was today's C#. It was the even-higher-level, comfier, shortcut language, loved by noobs and normies who aren't true hardcore nerds (identified by the masochism of choosing to write C) and write code that makes you cringe. (Although the situation is better today since C# excludes classes of errors C++ doesn't, so it actually IS friendlier than C while C++ merely gives you the illusion that it is. :p That it's often used as a beginner language blows my mind given how complicated it is once you get to learning it.)

Today, I think C++ has been bled off of those people (who have since fled to higher levels of abstraction while only hardcore nerds harbor the masochism to have stuck to C++), and modern C++ has made the language so much more powerful, that it would be worthy of being in the kernel. That said, we have Rust, which is an even better replacement for C.

Re: Linus Torvalds flames Google kernel contributor over filesystem suggestion

#53

The amount of support give by other posters here for Linus’ insane antisocial behavior is crazy. I would never, ever contribute upstream to Linux so long as Linus is involved. My time is too valuable to deal with his BS. He should realize the hostile environment he creates drives away contributors.

I wouldn't call it "insane antisocial behavior." I have no idea what his personal life is like, but managing the Linux source code isn't socializing, it's a job. You could say he's not very professional in this job, but he isn't doing this to make friends and get along with everybody.

You are right that it is also unprofessional. But this is open source where social considerations also apply.

Re: Linus Torvalds flames Google kernel contributor over filesystem suggestion

#55

Why f#ck would anyone ever want to contribute to the Linux kernel when you’re in danger of being on the receiving end of a rant like that…

Because the stakes are high. Nevertheless you shouldn’t take this personally.

> Nevertheless you shouldn't take this personally.

This is what narcissist enablers say: that some people are more equal than others.

Re: Linus Torvalds flames Google kernel contributor over filesystem suggestion

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

git was implemented in C. Someone asked him why he didn't choose C++ for it and he went on a rant basically saying C++ was bad, people that use it are subpar programmers, and that one of the advantages of choosing C is to weed out people who think C++ would have been a good choice. oddly enough I can't seem to find the original rant, if someone can provide that I'd be greatful. edit: to give context to my original po…

He was talking about not letting C++ code into the Linux kernel. As a C++ programmer, my cope for this is that back then's C++ was today's C#. It was the even-higher-level, comfier, shortcut language, loved by noobs and normies who aren't true hardcore nerds (identified by the masochism of choosing to write C) and write code that makes you cringe. (Although the situation is better today since C# excludes classes of e…

I found the initial post and response on a github issue of all places.

https://github.com/shawnanastasio/BasilC/issues/9

> C++ is a horrible language. It's made more horrible by the fact that a lot of substandard programmers use it, to the point where it's much much easier to generate total and utter crap with it. Quite frankly, even if the choice of C were to do nothing but keep the C++ programmers out, that in itself would be a huge reason to use C.

> In other words: the choice of C is the only sane choice. I know Miles Bader jokingly said "to piss you off", but it's actually true. I've come to the conclusion that any programmer that would prefer the project to be in C++ over C is likely a programmer that I really would prefer to piss off, so that he doesn't come and screw up any project I'm involved with.

Here's another article that's quoting from it as well.

https://fossbytes.com/linux-creator-linus-torvalds-c-program...

I don't doubt he's ranted about it in other places but the rant I remember is definitely the git one :)

Re: Linus Torvalds flames Google kernel contributor over filesystem suggestion

#57

I really suggest looking at the reply: https://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/2401.3/04254.html > I know nothing about what they're talking, but the response appears reasonable and mature, seems to engage in the substantive issues without responding to the anger/flaming, and looks like it intends to de-escalate and move forward. Torvalds' reply to that is more measured https://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/2…

completely agree, when you look at the full thread, no one even blinks an eye at his rant. They just proceed forward, and when they do so, Linus responds pretty normally (until his next condescending rant).

Seems like people in this group have pretty much gotten used to him being a condescending ass every dozen messages, filter out the posturing, take his genuine suggestion, and work from there.

It doesn't seem to bother them (or they are expending emotional energy not responding to it, a likely bit of collateral damage, but they are still communicating in a pretty professional way besides his tantrums).

Re: Linus Torvalds flames Google kernel contributor over filesystem suggestion

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the stakes are high. Nevertheless you shouldn’t take this personally.

> Nevertheless you shouldn't take this personally. This is what narcissist enablers say: that some people are more equal than others.

i think you are mixing something up here.

taking things personally doesn't stop the narcissists, it only enables them and others to hurt you. so how can not taking something personally enable narcissists?

for your own mental sanity, you should try to not take anything personally. put it down to that person being an asshole, or someone who lacks the mental capacity to be nice, or whatever putdown you can think of.

not taking something personally does not mean you condone that behavior. you can reject a behavior even if it is not aimed at you.

if you take things personally it only hurts your own ego, and if that happens to much, it may lead to self-doubt, or even depression. it's not worth it.

Re: Linus Torvalds flames Google kernel contributor over filesystem suggestion

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? It signals that they respect Linus's feelings (and they really don't want to piss him off), which seems quite mature and de-escalative to me.

language is confrontational and impersonal.

Curious, what kind of response in your opinion would have been better?

Re: Linus Torvalds flames Google kernel contributor over filesystem suggestion

#60
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

language is confrontational and impersonal.

Curious, what kind of response in your opinion would have been better?

you can rewrite the same phrase in more polite language: "sorry, I didn't expect so much push back, I sent these changes with good intentions only".
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