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You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

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Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#51

Post by SoftTalker »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #46
andrewstuart wrote: post #37

You’ll never know if you’re being discriminated against due to age. Not here in Australia anyway, no one would ever say out loud. You just don’t get selected. I did go for a job recently where we had a great phone interview and the guy essentially said “everything looks great we just need to meet in person” and when we met in person I visibly saw his expression change. Something about my appearance, either age or wei…

We (at Apple) interviewed a guy who was about my age (and I was already in my 50's at that time, ha ha). The interview(s) went great as far as I could suss but when we, the interviewers, met to go around and give the potential hire a thumbs up or thumbs down — one guy on our team was decidedly thumbs down. Why was he thumbs down? "I don't think he's a good fit for the team." When pressed for what that means he simply…

There might be reasons you want to avoid hiring older software devs.

I'm in my 50s. I've been through the death marches, the unrealistic goals, the 60-hour weeks, the last minute emergencies, the all-nighters trying to get a release out or trying to recover from the fallout of a poorly tested release.

I won't do it anymore. Nobody I know who is my age will do that anymore. There's almost nothing that will keep me at work past 5:00. The sun will come up tomorrow and nobody will die.

So if you're looking to hire someone who will ask "how high" when you say "jump" then you probably don't want to hire an older person.

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#52

Post by JKCalhoun »

SoftTalker wrote: post #51
JKCalhoun wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We (at Apple) interviewed a guy who was about my age (and I was already in my 50's at that time, ha ha). The interview(s) went great as far as I could suss but when we, the interviewers, met to go around and give the potential hire a thumbs up or thumbs down — one guy on our team was decidedly thumbs down. Why was he thumbs down? "I don't think he's a good fit for the team." When pressed for what that means he simply…

There might be reasons you want to avoid hiring older software devs. I'm in my 50s. I've been through the death marches, the unrealistic goals, the 60-hour weeks, the last minute emergencies, the all-nighters trying to get a release out or trying to recover from the fallout of a poorly tested release. I won't do it anymore. Nobody I know who is my age will do that anymore. There's almost nothing that will keep me at…

I'd let the applicant make that call though.

I know what you're saying though. I'm like you in that regard — so over the bullshit.

At the same time that can bring some levity (is that the right word in this case?) to the team.

I was often the cool head when deadlines were creeping up and the app was seemingly out of control. I was often the one that pushed back on management, pushed back on design, marketing.

A few younger engineers let me know when I retired that they appreciated my "honesty", ha ha.

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#53

Post by [deleted] »

SoftTalker wrote: post #51
JKCalhoun wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We (at Apple) interviewed a guy who was about my age (and I was already in my 50's at that time, ha ha). The interview(s) went great as far as I could suss but when we, the interviewers, met to go around and give the potential hire a thumbs up or thumbs down — one guy on our team was decidedly thumbs down. Why was he thumbs down? "I don't think he's a good fit for the team." When pressed for what that means he simply…

There might be reasons you want to avoid hiring older software devs. I'm in my 50s. I've been through the death marches, the unrealistic goals, the 60-hour weeks, the last minute emergencies, the all-nighters trying to get a release out or trying to recover from the fallout of a poorly tested release. I won't do it anymore. Nobody I know who is my age will do that anymore. There's almost nothing that will keep me at…

[deleted]

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#54

Post by andrewstuart »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #46
andrewstuart wrote: post #37

You’ll never know if you’re being discriminated against due to age. Not here in Australia anyway, no one would ever say out loud. You just don’t get selected. I did go for a job recently where we had a great phone interview and the guy essentially said “everything looks great we just need to meet in person” and when we met in person I visibly saw his expression change. Something about my appearance, either age or wei…

We (at Apple) interviewed a guy who was about my age (and I was already in my 50's at that time, ha ha). The interview(s) went great as far as I could suss but when we, the interviewers, met to go around and give the potential hire a thumbs up or thumbs down — one guy on our team was decidedly thumbs down. Why was he thumbs down? "I don't think he's a good fit for the team." When pressed for what that means he simply…

“Call this an unfair generalization if you must but old people are no good at everything.”

Moe from The Simpsons.

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#55

Post by harimau777 »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #47
alephnan wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a case where statistics could prove of systemic discrimination and statistical anomalies

They can prove statistical anomalies, sure. But no amount of statistics can prove discrimination (contrary to popular belief these days).

That's only the case if one believes that certain groups of people truly are superior or inferior.

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#56

Post by zeroCalories »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #19

In the company I worked for, it actually went the other way, from the US. There were levels and positions that were only available to employees of certain chronological ages (or above). I remember doing some fancy footwork, trying to get particularly bright younger engineers into positions of greater responsibility. They did force you to retire at 60, though. I suspect that is an artifact of their "full employment" s…

If we're working on a serious project(not tinder for dogs), I want to staff my senior positions with people that have tons of experience, not someone super bright.

More broadly, I think the problem with age discrimination is a problem with engineers that have 30 years of experience doing unimpressive things. For an IC code monkey I would definitely prefer someone younger with a lot of energy and potential to grow.

Not saying that I think age discrimination is okay, but that's too the reality of how people feel.

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#57

Post by callalex »

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #41
Negitivefrags wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not that insane. If pay is low then companies can afford to hire more people to do the same amount of work, leading to overall more employment and then presumably less homelessness.

Unemployment is just one factor in homelessness. Other factors are drugs (Japan is much more stricter), home availability (Japan has much less NIBMYies), etc.

Also most importantly the ability for the state to declare you mentally unfit and hold you against your will.

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#58

Post by zeroCalories »

vhcr wrote: post #35
stackedinserter wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But startups really can't afford it, what else can they do?

Insurance?

You can't insure against losing someone important in the early days of a startup. You lose the context and knowledge invested into the person, and replacing them will take time, which is even more valuable for a startup. Sure, things don't matter at a megacorp that has enough of a buffer to weather these leaves, but I'm sympathetic to startups that don't want to hire women. I don't know what the solution is, but it can't involve maternity leave. Maybe the state should provide free daycare so that the women can get right back to work.

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#59

Post by seanmcdirmid »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #46
andrewstuart wrote: post #37

You’ll never know if you’re being discriminated against due to age. Not here in Australia anyway, no one would ever say out loud. You just don’t get selected. I did go for a job recently where we had a great phone interview and the guy essentially said “everything looks great we just need to meet in person” and when we met in person I visibly saw his expression change. Something about my appearance, either age or wei…

We (at Apple) interviewed a guy who was about my age (and I was already in my 50's at that time, ha ha). The interview(s) went great as far as I could suss but when we, the interviewers, met to go around and give the potential hire a thumbs up or thumbs down — one guy on our team was decidedly thumbs down. Why was he thumbs down? "I don't think he's a good fit for the team." When pressed for what that means he simply…

Age discrimination is real, and impossible to prove. Unless there is a push like the diversity one we have now, it will remain that way. And it will affect all of us eventually (race and gender neutral), we all need to earn our FU money before 50 or else.

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#60

Post by swader999 »

whatyesaid wrote: post #3
swader999 wrote: post #2

In practical terms, I've never been asked my age in an interview. At some point I'm going to prune my experience if I have to.

Age is pretty easily guessable by degree dates and your appearance, they don't need to ask it explicitly.

Never had those checked either.
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