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Self-driving as a case study for AGI

karpathy.github.io

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Re: Self-driving as a case study for AGI

#51

Post by riffraff »

CuriouslyC wrote: post #10

I don't things like "full self driving" are meaningful (and probably also AGI), because in reality it isn't a binary thing, rather it's a spectrum of power based on error rate and problem space coverage. Waymo self driving works within a defined subset of the problem space, we can stick a goalpost in the sand in term of the known problem space and error rates and say that represents "full self driving" but the realit…

> People can generalize that way

People can't do that either. Some years ago there was a massive snowfall in Rome, where it seldom snows ever, people don't generally carry snow chains, and there's few snowplows and such.

Many people reacted by abandoning their cars in the middle of the road, which is basically what I'd expect any FSD vehicle to do.

Re: Self-driving as a case study for AGI

#52

Post by riffraff »

etwigg wrote: post #29

Whenever I am trying to figure what is true and/or good for me, there are some people who want to help me and others who want to help themselves (sell me cigarettes, negative sum politics, etc). This is the battle where AGI seems spooky - eventually people are not able to tell which way is up. We should consider the OODA loop of a person's self-determination separately from the menial tasks a person undertakes to mak…

Do you believe this is new?

It seems to me to just be another iteration of dealing with uncertain information: our neighbors may lie, our leaders may lie, newspaper may lie, radio may lie, TV may lie, blogs may lie, social networks may lie, pictures are photoshopped, videos are deepfaked..

At each iteration we had some problems but we adapted, it's one thing we're good at.

Re: Self-driving as a case study for AGI

#53

Post by baq »

a-dub wrote: post #26

"AGI: An autonomous system that surpasses human capabilities in the majority of economically valuable work." -- what an obscenely depressing reduction of a fascinating field of inquiry. who the hell snuck in and redefined the science of thinking machines to this sad and reductive get rich quick crap?

You seem to be confusing the economy with capitalism or money in general? AGI is potentially a post-money technology if you take it to the limit. Economy is a way of improving society. Money was useful in this use case for a few thousand years but might not be anymore; the economy will still have to work, though.

Re: Self-driving as a case study for AGI

#54

Post by esalman »

a-dub wrote: post #26

"AGI: An autonomous system that surpasses human capabilities in the majority of economically valuable work." -- what an obscenely depressing reduction of a fascinating field of inquiry. who the hell snuck in and redefined the science of thinking machines to this sad and reductive get rich quick crap?

Agreed. A lot of the things that we humans do are not economically valuable. Yet, those help us survive, evolve and thrive as human being and the most intelligent species known to us.

Re: Self-driving as a case study for AGI

#55

Post by Radim »

ActorNightly wrote: post #39
a-dub wrote: post #26

"AGI: An autonomous system that surpasses human capabilities in the majority of economically valuable work." -- what an obscenely depressing reduction of a fascinating field of inquiry. who the hell snuck in and redefined the science of thinking machines to this sad and reductive get rich quick crap?

Its not really about "get rich", its about giving people the ability to bypass the middleman for pretty much anything that they rely on.

The "middleman" being other people, i.e. themselves from another's perspective.

"These other people are useless, let's bypass them. But not me! I simply gain the ability to get anything I want."

The lack of second-order thinking is hilarious.

Re: Self-driving as a case study for AGI

#56

Post by dave4420 »

wodenokoto wrote: post #50

> but automate it we did (ahead of many other sectors of the economy), and society has noticed and is responding to it I was quite surprised by this sentence, as I thought we didn't have self driving cars. Have I been sleeping under a rock?

We have self driving cars in an extremely limited number of cities (just one or two) and you can’t buy them, you can only use them like an Uber.

He’s overselling how mature the technology is.

Re: Self-driving as a case study for AGI

#57

Post by thrdbndndn »

3asdf123 wrote: post #31

I now come to realize that if you don't want to drive it's better to have public transport. For the real fun part of owning a personal vehicle: sport car, road-trip... I doubt you would want a robot to take over.

I don't really like driving per se, but public transport, regardless of its sophistication (for example, as seen in Tokyo), has its challenges, particularly when it comes to grocery shopping. Transporting a large quantity of goods can be impractical, if not impossible, without a car. Even carrying a moderate amount can be exhausting due to the 'last 100 meter' issue, which persists even if one lives close to a metro station, say within a five-minute walk.

Moreover, public transport often isn't as comfortable as your own vehicle (which I understand is a luxury).

Conversely, when it comes to driving in a large city, finding a parking spot can often be a major hassle.

Re: Self-driving as a case study for AGI

#58

Post by thrw4w4y0 »

dave4420 wrote: post #56
wodenokoto wrote: post #50

> but automate it we did (ahead of many other sectors of the economy), and society has noticed and is responding to it I was quite surprised by this sentence, as I thought we didn't have self driving cars. Have I been sleeping under a rock?

We have self driving cars in an extremely limited number of cities (just one or two) and you can’t buy them, you can only use them like an Uber. He’s overselling how mature the technology is.

[dead]

Re: Self-driving as a case study for AGI

#59

Post by jpnc »

fragmede wrote: post #22
kylebenzle wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try, "ChatGPT, what do you think about this song"... LLMs do not constitute "AI" let alone the more rigorous AGI. They are a GREAT statistical parlor trick for people that don't understand statistics though.

You're going to have to spell it out for me. I asked ChatGPT 4 about a random song and it gave me a decent description. https://chat.openai.com/share/71d438d7-d1f5-4f0f-9b63-8b5dd6...

Giving a description of a song is not the same as saying what you think about it.

Re: Self-driving as a case study for AGI

#60

Post by gwoolhurme »

As others pointed out he seems to be talking more about about automation which... sure that's a fine discussion to have, but what bugged me more than anything is the overselling of Waymo/FSD. I understand a lot of this is also on a spectrum but it seems a bit irresponsible of Karpathy not to mention crashes Waymo has faced or other problems FSD systems have faced. It's not just an issue of scaling up, sensors, etc. There is more engineering work that needs to be put in clearly. It's fine to bring it up in his example of reactions to economical forces, but let's be completely honest about the whole thing.
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