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NASA regains contact with mini-helicopter on Mars

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Re: NASA regains contact with mini-helicopter on Mars

#51
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea good point. Apparently the blade tip speed on Ingenuity is Mach 0.6-0.7!

Interesting note about this: the speed of sound on Mars is only ~70% of that on Earth, due to less atmospheric density. Might change your Mach numbers!

It's not due to less density, but rather a different gas composition (CO2 vs. N2+O2).

Re: NASA regains contact with mini-helicopter on Mars

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I remembered correctly they used a space hardened Power cpu If you're remembering correctly, then I'm misremembering in that this has essentially a Snapdragon chip and not a rad hardened CPU at all

Maybe I am misremembering the interview. Maybe the person said that they used to use a hardened IBM power chip?

This information is pretty widely available, e.g. on Wikipedia [1], no need to go off memory. Flight control is done by an FPGA, the main CPU is a Snapdragon 801 running Linux, and it uses Zigbee to communicate with the rover.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingenuity_(helicopter)#Avionic...

Re: NASA regains contact with mini-helicopter on Mars

#53

We will use more helicopters instead of rovers for new missions ? Or larger crafts would be much harder or riskier to use ? Or maybe have a helicopter that can move the rover with the equipment to different locations.

Minimizing moving parts, so much as possible, when dealing with hardware tens of millions of miles away, let alone with a 13 minute delay in 1-way messaging, is generally smart. And Mars' atmosphere is so thin that these rovers will never be moving any meaningful payload, so their only real use case is as a scouting type system. But they also add very little value there given the existence of orbiting satellites. Even the Mars Recon Orbiter (from 2005) captures images in the IMO NASA wanted to try to deal with the sort of 'oh boy... another rover' fatigue and saw the drone as a way to spice things up with some passable science arguments behind it, and a relatively minimal cost. Further supporting this is that the helicopter wasn't an initial part of the plan - it was strapped on at the 'last minute', speaking in government time. In any case, I would comfortably wager against us seeing more drones in future missions, at least to Mars.

Re: NASA regains contact with mini-helicopter on Mars

#54
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a problem of scaling this up to say a 20kg payload? I’m not an aeronautical engineer, so I guess what I’m asking is if there is some problem scaling up flying machines in an extremely thin atmosphere?

I don't know the answer to your question, but for context here are the weights of Mars rovers: Sojourner (1997): 11 kg Spirit & Opportunity (2004): 185 kg Curiosity (2011): 899 kg Perseverance (2020): 1,025 kg

These must be the masses of the Mars rovers, the weights would be measured in newtons (or pounds in the USA) and would differ between mars and earth.

Re: NASA regains contact with mini-helicopter on Mars

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think you’re supposed to hold your breathe when lifting…

Just like your not supposed to puff your cheeks when playing an instrument, but that never stopped Dizzy Gillespie. More of a suggestion than a rule

Gillespie also exemplified why the rule against puffing your cheeks is more than just a suggestion.

Re: NASA regains contact with mini-helicopter on Mars

#57

We will use more helicopters instead of rovers for new missions ? Or larger crafts would be much harder or riskier to use ? Or maybe have a helicopter that can move the rover with the equipment to different locations.

In the shorter term, I see the helicopter as making the rover more capable, by finding routes and destinations of interest. And the rover makes the helicopter more capable by providing a recharging station. So they're both at their best when working as a system. Maybe a rover can support multiple choppers.

Re: NASA regains contact with mini-helicopter on Mars

#58
post #20

Didn't this use mostly off the shelf parts? If so, I wonder how this will impact costs on future missions. If they can do more with consumer hardware, they can save budget to apply toward more science.

The original Elon Musk biography describes how a legacy aerospace engineer joined spacex and was tasked with a part: > He got a quote back for $120,000. “Elon laughed,” Davis said. “He said, 'That part is no more complicated than a garage door opener. Your budget is five thousand dollars. Go make it work.’”

This is a terrifying anecdote.

Re: NASA regains contact with mini-helicopter on Mars

#59
post #32
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a thin atmosphere, lifting a heavier payload needs bigger rotors or increased RPM, which increases power demands and structural stress. The challenge is to keep the vehicle light enough to fly while also making it sturdy enough to carry the payload and survive environments.

Why can’t “more rotors” be another solution?

For sure, that’s another way to decompose “bigger rotors”. It would probably be appropriate to dive into a conversation about Ingenuity’s design goals, requirements, and the trades performed to end up with what they got.

Re: NASA regains contact with mini-helicopter on Mars

#60
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea good point. Apparently the blade tip speed on Ingenuity is Mach 0.6-0.7!

Interesting note about this: the speed of sound on Mars is only ~70% of that on Earth, due to less atmospheric density. Might change your Mach numbers!

I included it
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