travesty of justice doesn't begin to describe it. there must be something else wrong besides just the software? how could the justice department just blindly trust the software accounting without any other evidence.
Fujitsu bugs that sent innocent people to prison were known "from the start"
51–60 of 276 posts
Re: Fujitsu bugs that sent innocent people to prison were known "from the start"
#52If bugs of that severity were known from the start, then (taking the most generous interpretation), it was incompetence of the highest degree that the software was released.
Re: Fujitsu bugs that sent innocent people to prison were known "from the start"
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have generally found that there's not that much relation between people's stated beliefs and their actual every-day behaviour. By and large, I do think their beliefs are genuine and heart-felt, and that they're not faking them. It's just that it doesn't really influence their daily behaviour all that much. Generally people are motivated by the incentives of the moment, emotion of the moment, and that kind of thing.…
> People often assume that if someone has the "right set of beliefs" (whatever that "right set" is) that they're also a good person. IIUC, there are a few aspects of Christian theology that muddy this issue a bit. I'm probably a bit wrong, so I'd be grateful for any corrections: 1) Christians believe in progressive sanctification. I.e., the Holy Spirit works, over time, to make Christians more like Jesus. So you real…
>So you really should expect true Christians, on average, to gradually become better people.
Only if I accept their beliefs as accurate.
Re: Fujitsu bugs that sent innocent people to prison were known "from the start"
#54Bugs are inevitable. The real issue is with the post office management that prosecuted people they knew there was a good chance were innocent, withheld evidence, falsified evidence, and harassed journalists investigating. What really bothers me is that the CEO of the Organisation at the time was also a Christian priest/deacon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paula_Vennells > witness statements from Fujitsu staff due to…
Seriously now, with all this information now available, shouldn't all the people that lied and rewrote statements be prosecuted for perjury?
"I'm sorry, I don't remember". But yes, they should and probably will be. But just for show.
Re: Fujitsu bugs that sent innocent people to prison were known "from the start"
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have generally found that there's not that much relation between people's stated beliefs and their actual every-day behaviour. By and large, I do think their beliefs are genuine and heart-felt, and that they're not faking them. It's just that it doesn't really influence their daily behaviour all that much. Generally people are motivated by the incentives of the moment, emotion of the moment, and that kind of thing.…
Related, started realizing that "being a principled person" doesn't really mean "having (stated) principles", it means belief that you can (and should ) have principles that you're trying to apply consistently and continuously. Lots of people have principles. Not so many people are principled.
Your actual principles are demonstrated by how you act when nobody is looking.
Re: Fujitsu bugs that sent innocent people to prison were known "from the start"
#56Bugs are inevitable. The real issue is with the post office management that prosecuted people they knew there was a good chance were innocent, withheld evidence, falsified evidence, and harassed journalists investigating. What really bothers me is that the CEO of the Organisation at the time was also a Christian priest/deacon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paula_Vennells > witness statements from Fujitsu staff due to…
If you want to turn one's life into living hell, it helps to ask a priest for help.
Re: Fujitsu bugs that sent innocent people to prison were known "from the start"
#57There is no way to make good the harm inflicted, and I'm skeptical that anyone except, maybe the innocent, are going to be punished.
The central villain of this shit show is the Post Office. The history of the project shows that - from initial procurement onwards. Poorly implemented by ICL, a UK company, taken over by Fujitsu as some sort of favour to the UK government. The developers are guilty but this is just another government project, a disaster, but that's apparently nothing really unusual.
The minor villains are the members of the lynch mob. Most were probably ignorant of the facts and so, filled with righteous indignation they did whatever was necessary to make sure that the evil thieves got theirs.
How do you make something like this right? I don't think you can. Shit happens. The villains will keep their heads down for a while, and then like much of politics, will carry on because it seems that there are no consequences anymore.
Re: Fujitsu bugs that sent innocent people to prison were known "from the start"
#58Things still going on right now:
Prosecutions are still going on but are being led by the Crown Prosecution Service (vs. the post office).
Fujitsu are continuing to proving the CPS / post office with data that they have been doing for years (and possibly still providing witness statements, I dunno).
Subpostmasters still complain about bugs in the horizon software causing balance errors.
Subpostmasters still get fined and have to pay the Post Office ( automatically deducted from their salary) for any shortfalls that occur.
Re: Fujitsu bugs that sent innocent people to prison were known "from the start"
#59All the PO lawyers rewriting witness statements must go to jail. All the prosecutors must go to jail for negligence and malpractice.
Odd that so often here on HN we talk about how prisons don't work, don't deter crime, don't rehabilitate... yet whenever some CEO or high level official is caught in malfeasance, we insist that "sending them to jail" is the only proper response.
The kind of response you see in this case is a call for a payback for the miscarriage of justice that destroyed people's lives. Quite justified given what was done to hundreds of people.
Re: Fujitsu bugs that sent innocent people to prison were known "from the start"
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have generally found that there's not that much relation between people's stated beliefs and their actual every-day behaviour. By and large, I do think their beliefs are genuine and heart-felt, and that they're not faking them. It's just that it doesn't really influence their daily behaviour all that much. Generally people are motivated by the incentives of the moment, emotion of the moment, and that kind of thing.…
> People often assume that if someone has the "right set of beliefs" (whatever that "right set" is) that they're also a good person. IIUC, there are a few aspects of Christian theology that muddy this issue a bit. I'm probably a bit wrong, so I'd be grateful for any corrections: 1) Christians believe in progressive sanctification. I.e., the Holy Spirit works, over time, to make Christians more like Jesus. So you real…
I wasn't even talking about Christians specifically, or even religion. Just "beliefs" in the broadest possible sense. I don't know if it's better or worse among Christians (or a subsection of Christians) as opposed to anything else (e.g. political affiliation or beliefs).
I am hesitant to start listing examples, as I don't want to side-track this discussion too much.
I think there's probably a bit of a general assumption to consider people on "your team" to be "one of the good guys". Perhaps this ties in with how people tend to justify their own actions. I'm not entirely sure where it comes from.