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Ask Valve employees: How well does the flat organization work?

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Re: Ask Valve employees: How well does the flat organization work?

#51

Post by jsprinkles »

loboman wrote: post #19
wpietri wrote: post #11

Do the dishes in the office sink get washed? If so, by whom? And how clean is the kitchen area? This may seem like a joke, but the answer says a lot about an organization. For example, last time I was at the Wikimedia Foundation offices, this sign was above the sink: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:These_dishes_may_requ...

Does this assume that developers should wash the dishes? If so, why is that a good idea? I would assume that developer time is too expensive for that...

Is this what brogramming sounds like? Too much Rockstar to rinse off the plate, leave it for somebody else?

Are we engineers or high schoolers these days?

Re: Ask Valve employees: How well does the flat organization work?

#52

Post by exim »

wpietri wrote: post #11

Do the dishes in the office sink get washed? If so, by whom? And how clean is the kitchen area? This may seem like a joke, but the answer says a lot about an organization. For example, last time I was at the Wikimedia Foundation offices, this sign was above the sink: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:These_dishes_may_requ...

Another question bothers me more: Who makes dishes?

Re: Ask Valve employees: How well does the flat organization work?

#53

Post by loboman »

neilk wrote: post #33
loboman wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this assume that developers should wash the dishes? If so, why is that a good idea? I would assume that developer time is too expensive for that...

Please shoot me if I ever start thinking my brain is too valuable to waste on basic hygiene. There is a dishwasher. It's five seconds to rinse your dish and put it away. At the WMF, there is someone whose job it is to make sure the kitchens are clean and the dishwasher gets run, but that's only effective because most people exercise common sense.

I was genuinely interested in the answers, so thanks for the interesting replies. I don't have a dishwasher so I didn't know it could be so quick. I agree spending 10 or 20 seconds or a minute on something that's useful for everybody is not a bad idea.

I'm just not sure how that scales for tasks that require more time. If there is some task that requires 20 minutes, and the company is big enough, do the answers change or do they not? Maybe it is better to hire a dedicated person for the office to do that than to make everyone use 20 minutes of their time every day on such task?

Re: Ask Valve employees: How well does the flat organization work?

#54

Post by matznerd »

appleaintbad wrote: post #34
bdunbar wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See also the coffee pot at 10:00. If you can reliably find fresh coffee, morale is good. Low or now coffee, things are amiss.

If it isn't a K-cup, it probably isn't fresh enough. Also, the place I just left had awful coffee. It was so bad that once when a coworker cleaned the grime that built up in the coffee pot for the past few years of use, it made the coffee taste worse. When grime is the only thing making the coffee better, you need to get better coffee.

get http://www.craftcoffee.com delivered to you like our office does

Re: Ask Valve employees: How well does the flat organization work?

#55

Post by [deleted] »

wpietri wrote: post #46

How many hours a day does the average Valve person spend in meetings? How are they organized? I've looked into some co-ops, including San Francisco's venerable (and very profitable) Rainbow Grocery. One of the biggest complaints is the amount and/or difficulty of meetings, but they see them as necessary to settle issues with sufficient buy-in from all stakeholders. How does Valve minimize that pain?

[deleted]

Re: Ask Valve employees: How well does the flat organization work?

#56

Post by jodrellblank »

brown9-2 wrote: post #22
loboman wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this assume that developers should wash the dishes? If so, why is that a good idea? I would assume that developer time is too expensive for that...

In your opinion, which types of employees are not too important to watch the dishes which they dirty?

Where did you get "important" from? He said 'time too valuable'.

This is a practical salary versus return on work done calculation, not a human worth judgement.

Re: Ask Valve employees: How well does the flat organization work?

#57

Post by jrockway »

loboman wrote: post #19
wpietri wrote: post #11

Do the dishes in the office sink get washed? If so, by whom? And how clean is the kitchen area? This may seem like a joke, but the answer says a lot about an organization. For example, last time I was at the Wikimedia Foundation offices, this sign was above the sink: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:These_dishes_may_requ...

Does this assume that developers should wash the dishes? If so, why is that a good idea? I would assume that developer time is too expensive for that...

At Google, you put your dirty dishes in the nearest dish collection area, and the magic dish fairies periodically whisk them away to be cleaned.

Re: Ask Valve employees: How well does the flat organization work?

#58

Post by [deleted] »

wpietri wrote: post #26
loboman wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this assume that developers should wash the dishes? If so, why is that a good idea? I would assume that developer time is too expensive for that...

Well if developer time is that valuable, I think Mel Brooks has an innovation for your office that you should look into: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGfXiIXTpE0 More seriously, I think that allegedly financial calculation often ends up covering up for laziness, arrogance, and hierarchies of social class. Make sure the code works? That's QA's job. Make sure it runs well? Oh, that's ops; file a ticket. Wash my own d…

[deleted]

Re: Ask Valve employees: How well does the flat organization work?

#59

Post by jquery »

lifeformed wrote: post #36
loboman wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this assume that developers should wash the dishes? If so, why is that a good idea? I would assume that developer time is too expensive for that...

Reminds me of living with roommates. It takes literally 10 seconds to wash (not just rinse, but entirely wash) a bowl and a spoon. Nothing has to stay in the sink - just wash things right when you're done using them.

A proper dishwasher spends 20-60 minutes throwing water at dirty dishes. 10 seconds leaves tons of bacteria and dirt still on the dish.

Re: Ask Valve employees: How well does the flat organization work?

#60

Post by righteous »

sycr wrote: post #30
Paul_Morgan wrote: post #24

Best Buy has something similar called ROWE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROWE The business measures performance instead of hours. At Valve the performance appears to be measured as 'shipped'. I'd also guess that Gabe is practicing his own version of servant leadership: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servant_leadership

How's that working out for Best Buy?

ROWE at Best Buy was great. Friday 1pm, no more meetings and work is done for the week? Bail. Or, take a day and work from home. It got employee's and managers focused more on outcomes than duration of activity.
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