Judge blocks JetBlue from acquiring Spirit Airlines • Hacker News Board

Re: Judge blocks JetBlue from acquiring Spirit Airlines

#51

Post by iclosem » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 1:03 PM UTC

dtnewman wrote: post #46

I am personally happy with this decision. I don’t love flying spirit but I respect them, ever since hearing their former CEO speak on a Planet Money podcast. He said straight up that Spirit Airlines is aiming to be the Dollar General of the skies. If you want something luxurious, go elsewhere. But he called out the other airlines who pretend like they are the Nordstrom of the skies, but don’t actually live up to that…

But without this deal they will go bankrupt and then there will be no Dollar General of the skies and the customer loses. Maybe allowing private markets to work would have been a good idea?

Re: Judge blocks JetBlue from acquiring Spirit Airlines

#52

Post by iclosem » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 1:04 PM UTC

ohashi wrote: post #49

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Besides that it's a bad ruling because the US spent years allowing mergers between large players that were clearly anti-competitive, and now in the environment of dominant airlines, it's applying the rules that it should have to the big players, but to smaller airlines who are now at a disadvantage due to their size. It's an utterly feckless uneven application of the rules to everyone's detriment. You couldn't have d…

So it's a bad ruling because previous administrations didn't try to enforce anti monopoly laws? Why not view it as, this is a good start and hoping it continues to prevent even more consolidation and monopoly in airlines and other industries? The notion that there has to be more consolidation to compete is only good for the companies monopolizing - not the consumer. Why should we be helping them make more profit by a…

Because the customer loses. They're sentencing Spirit to bankruptcy. OTher airlines will buy the planes and get stronger...

Re: Judge blocks JetBlue from acquiring Spirit Airlines

#53

Post by corethree » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 1:07 PM UTC

iclosem wrote: post #51

dtnewman wrote: post #46

I am personally happy with this decision. I don’t love flying spirit but I respect them, ever since hearing their former CEO speak on a Planet Money podcast. He said straight up that Spirit Airlines is aiming to be the Dollar General of the skies. If you want something luxurious, go elsewhere. But he called out the other airlines who pretend like they are the Nordstrom of the skies, but don’t actually live up to that…

But without this deal they will go bankrupt and then there will be no Dollar General of the skies and the customer loses. Maybe allowing private markets to work would have been a good idea?

It's utterly clear that free markets can fail and can eventually lead to all kinds of additional problems like wealth inequality and monopolies. This is clear.

Nobody is clear about the right move on how to deal with this problem. There's no sure fire conclusion.

Re: Judge blocks JetBlue from acquiring Spirit Airlines

#54

Post by mmcconnell1618 » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 1:09 PM UTC

xvector wrote: post #24

eganist wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm probably oversimplifying, but Alaska + Hawaiian creates a larger regional competitor to e.g American, United, and Southwest on a more local scale where most of their routes are complimentary (the two weren't substantially competing; Alaska offers a handful of CONUS to Hawaii routes, whereas Hawaiian offers CONUS as well as international routes to/from Hawaii), whereas JetBlue acquiring Spirit consolidates nationw…

On a side note, I find it interesting that JetBlue is considered "low cost" but has the absolute best domestic business class by a long shot.

I've always considered JetBlue to be a value leader vs. low cost leader. They have nicer seats, in seat entertainment in all classes and have a pricing/refund/exchange policy that is more customer friendly than competitors. Spirit is just going for low cost. Southwest is in between where they want low cost but you have to fight for a seat and might needs to have 2 or 3 stops to cross the country depending on where you start.

I assume you're talking about JetBlue's Mint product which is all business class for some cross country flights and a few international. Again, I think they are trying to provide the best value for business class compared to the larger carriers.

Re: Judge blocks JetBlue from acquiring Spirit Airlines

#55

Post by Crosseye_Jack » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 1:17 PM UTC

taspeotis wrote: post #37

_zagj wrote: post #35

Meanwhile MSFT, a monopolist megacap, was allowed to buy Activision-Blizzard?

Yup, a firm monopoly on videogames if you ignore consoles [1], and PC (Steam, Epic) and mobile. [1] https://www.ign.com/articles/ps5-has-outsold-xbox-series-x-a...

And titles from indie devs / smaller studios (which I find myself going back to play much more these days, than titles from the "big boys").

Re: Judge blocks JetBlue from acquiring Spirit Airlines

#56

Post by grepfru_it » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 1:21 PM UTC

bozhark wrote: post #42

bb88 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure it'll be fine. Uncomfortable, but fine.

That’s the Spirit!

Protip: if you pretend to be asleep after you request non-free water, the flight attendant will give up and give you the water for free

(Observed next to me on the one and only spirit flight I’ve been on)

Re: Judge blocks JetBlue from acquiring Spirit Airlines

#57

Post by _fat_santa » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 1:22 PM UTC

jsyang00 wrote: post #6

This is a bad ruling, Spirit is likely to go under without acquisition. Neither firm had particularly large share of market.

The issue I always saw with a Spirit / JetBlue merger is while JetBlue offers "low cost", Spirit occupies the "ultra low cost" niche, and a merger between the two would very likely mean the elimination of the "ultra low cost" segment to places Spirit operates. I feel like this is a great opening for Frontier to come back and try to buy them again, and some have said that deal would be approved, because Frontier operates in the same "ultra low cost" niche that Spirit operates in.

Re: Judge blocks JetBlue from acquiring Spirit Airlines

#58

Post by SOLAR_FIELDS » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 1:23 PM UTC

iclosem wrote: post #51

dtnewman wrote: post #46

I am personally happy with this decision. I don’t love flying spirit but I respect them, ever since hearing their former CEO speak on a Planet Money podcast. He said straight up that Spirit Airlines is aiming to be the Dollar General of the skies. If you want something luxurious, go elsewhere. But he called out the other airlines who pretend like they are the Nordstrom of the skies, but don’t actually live up to that…

But without this deal they will go bankrupt and then there will be no Dollar General of the skies and the customer loses. Maybe allowing private markets to work would have been a good idea?

Can we even say that JetBlue succeeding and/or the merger moving forward would be a win for the consumer though?

The problem with aerospace is that it has a very high barrier to entry, so consolidation ends up hurting the consumer more often than not. Same as other infra related industries like telcos and civil engineering work that require fairly massive upfront capital and regulatory investments to operate.

Better to leave a hole in the market to encourage new entrants, even if it means consumers suffer in the short term.

Re: Judge blocks JetBlue from acquiring Spirit Airlines

#59

Post by pxx » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 1:30 PM UTC

iclosem wrote: post #51

dtnewman wrote: post #46

I am personally happy with this decision. I don’t love flying spirit but I respect them, ever since hearing their former CEO speak on a Planet Money podcast. He said straight up that Spirit Airlines is aiming to be the Dollar General of the skies. If you want something luxurious, go elsewhere. But he called out the other airlines who pretend like they are the Nordstrom of the skies, but don’t actually live up to that…

But without this deal they will go bankrupt and then there will be no Dollar General of the skies and the customer loses. Maybe allowing private markets to work would have been a good idea?

Considering reorganization under bankruptcy is not equivalent to going out of business.

Re: Judge blocks JetBlue from acquiring Spirit Airlines

#60

Post by squirrel6 » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 1:37 PM UTC

SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #58

iclosem wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But without this deal they will go bankrupt and then there will be no Dollar General of the skies and the customer loses. Maybe allowing private markets to work would have been a good idea?

Can we even say that JetBlue succeeding and/or the merger moving forward would be a win for the consumer though? The problem with aerospace is that it has a very high barrier to entry, so consolidation ends up hurting the consumer more often than not. Same as other infra related industries like telcos and civil engineering work that require fairly massive upfront capital and regulatory investments to operate. Better…

I agree with you even though I think some will view this as a hot take. It is interesting that the US government has historically subsidized both smaller telcos and airlines to fill these types of small gaps where they exist.