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Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

cointelegraph.com

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Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and what would happen during/after a fork?

> and what would happen during a fork? Now, that is a very interesting question. If said ETF did their homework properly, their handling of a fork should be described in detail in their prospectus. Not that I would ever buy a BTC ETF since it precisely negates what I believe Bitcoin to be useful for, but if I had to, I'd pick the one that would convert the forked coins back to BTC immediately after the fork. If enoug…

> Not that I would ever buy a BTC ETF since it precisely negates what I believe Bitcoin to be useful for, but if I had to, I'd pick the one that would convert the forked coins back to BTC immediately after the fork.

Would it actually be clear which fork is the winning one?

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#52

Satoshi's dream of a decentralised ledger finally reaches its ultimate form of a centralised list maintained by the DTC. Rejoice!

While I agree with the sentiment, please remember that actually buying BTC directly and doing self-custody is still an option.

So much more hassle though. Nobody's going to bother with that now - what's the point?

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sarcasm aside, this is the ultimate endorsement. The likes of Blackrock could use BTC as a hedge if the Feds keep on printing USD under political pressure.

How would that be better than holding gold? Fees for large transactions of btc are getting higher than the cost of physically moving gold anyway, and the chances to lose it or get it stolen are higher.

Fees for storing and moving bitcoin are absolutely not approaching the costs for gold

Try moving $10M of gold from one end of the world to another for under $100

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#54

This is so sad. Crypto (including Bitcoin) serves as a money funnel while takes from economically insecure middle class retail investors and pours it into the pockets of the tremendously wealthy.

Haven't heard this take before. What are your thoughts on high frequency trading shops and the regular stock market?

At least with stocks you actually own cash flows. Cryptos produce nothing.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and what would happen during/after a fork?

> and what would happen during a fork? Now, that is a very interesting question. If said ETF did their homework properly, their handling of a fork should be described in detail in their prospectus. Not that I would ever buy a BTC ETF since it precisely negates what I believe Bitcoin to be useful for, but if I had to, I'd pick the one that would convert the forked coins back to BTC immediately after the fork. If enoug…

Wow, this actually is a critical point, and I'm surprised at what the outcome is. Essentially, it seems to me that these ETFs are saying they will abandon any rights to forked coins. That seems insane to me, though, so perhaps I'm misunderstanding? I mean, if there is a hard fork, some percentage of total value will go with one chain and some percentage to the other - that's basically exactly what happened with the Bitcoin Cash fork - so how can the ETFs just say they'll abandon coins in the forked chain.

My understanding taken from:

1. https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/bitcoin-etf-hurdles%3A-cash-... "In the event of a fork diverting from the main chain, trusts associated with the ETFs are expected to relinquish any entitlements."

2. Grayscale prospectus, https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1588489/000119312524...:

> Shareholders will not receive the benefits of any forks or airdrops.

> The Bitcoin Network operates using open-source protocols, meaning that any user can download the software, modify it and then propose that the users and miners of Bitcoin adopt the modification. When a modification is introduced and a substantial majority of users and miners’ consent to the modification, the change is implemented and the network remains uninterrupted. However, if less than a substantial majority of users and miners’ consent to the proposed modification, and the modification is not compatible with the software prior to its modification, the consequence would be what is known as a “hard fork” of the Bitcoin Network, with one group running the pre-modified software and the other running the modified software. The effect of such a fork would be the existence of two versions of Bitcoin running in parallel, yet lacking interchangeability. In addition to forks, a digital asset may become subject to a similar occurrence known as an “airdrop.” In an airdrop, the promotors of a new digital asset announce to holders of another digital asset that such holders will be entitled to claim a certain amount of the new digital asset for free, based on the fact that they hold such other digital asset. We refer to the right to receive any benefits arising from a fork, airdrop of similar event as an “Incidental Right” and any such virtual currency acquired through an Incidental Right as “IR Virtual Currency.”

> With respect to any fork, airdrop or similar event, the Sponsor will cause the Trust to irrevocably abandon the Incidental Rights and any IR Virtual Currency associated with such event. As such, shareholders will not receive the benefits of any forks, and the Trust is not able to participate in any airdrop.

> In the event the Sponsor seeks to change the Trust’s policy with respect to Incidental Rights or IR Virtual Currency, an application would need to be filed with the SEC by NYSE Arca seeking approval to amend its listing rules to permit the Trust to distribute the Incidental Rights or IR Virtual Currency in-kind to an agent of the shareholders for resale by such agent. However, there can be no assurance as to whether or when the Sponsor would make such a decision, or when NYSE Arca will seek or obtain this approval, if at all.

> Even if such regulatory approval is sought and obtained, shareholders may not receive the benefits of any forks, the Trust may not choose, or be able, to participate in an airdrop, and the timing of receiving any benefits from a fork, airdrop or similar event is uncertain. Any inability to recognize the economic benefit of a hard fork or airdrop could adversely affect the value of the Shares.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#57
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So "winning" for Bitcoin has now come to mean becoming a boring traditional security that doesn't do much of anything else? That's awfully different from what 99.9% of Bitcoin optimists have spent years claiming the future would be. Authorizing Bitcoin ETFs does absolutely nothing to revolutionize payments or finance, and is the only positive crypto story I have seen in many months.

You can’t win with HN no coiners. The ETF doesn’t prevent all the decentralized benefits. It just adds regulatory legitimacy from the world’s most important financial regulator. It also helps regular people put their retirement money in, which is great

> The ETF doesn’t prevent all the decentralized benefits.

OP's point wasn't about preventing decentralized benefits, I believe they were saying the ETFs don't help them in any way.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would that be better than holding gold? Fees for large transactions of btc are getting higher than the cost of physically moving gold anyway, and the chances to lose it or get it stolen are higher.

Fees for storing and moving bitcoin are absolutely not approaching the costs for gold Try moving $10M of gold from one end of the world to another for under $100

Well, how about trying to move $200 in Bitcoin - it's the most expensive funds transfer. You cannot "move" $50 as it's cost-prohibitive!

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sarcasm aside, this is the ultimate endorsement. The likes of Blackrock could use BTC as a hedge if the Feds keep on printing USD under political pressure.

How would that be better than holding gold? Fees for large transactions of btc are getting higher than the cost of physically moving gold anyway, and the chances to lose it or get it stolen are higher.

"Large" here meaning physically large in terms of bytes, it's irrespective of the amount transferred in the tx. If you have high volume in a relatively low number of transactions and are relatively good with input/output hygiene then the actual fees paid probably won't break the bank.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#60

In the hypothetical case that a Bitcoin ETF gets hacked and its wallet(s) emptied, what happens? Is it any different from, say, a gold ETF having its physical gold stolen?

and what would happen during/after a fork?

You think the political willpower across all superpowers would be substantial enough to allow for "error correction" forking (nicest way to put this), to the benefit of individual superpowers who made an error like that?

This seems unlikely.

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