Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

businessinsider.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 801 posts

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#51

Post by brightball »

ohfoydoyd wrote: post #36
avgDev wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is one of the issues for me. Plus, the only viable EV now for me is Tesla, but they keep making silly decisions and are just an odd automaker. By silly decisions I mean things like removal of turn signal stalk, removal of parking sensors, lack of a gauge in field of view(y, 3), etc. I love ability to buy online. I hate the lack of an online parts catalog where I can purchase OEM parts. This is a big issue for me…

why is tesla the only viable option?

I’ve test driven most of the competition. They are all much more expensive for a subpar product from what I’ve seen.

IMO the plugin hyrbid market is a much more natural transition and some of those vehicles are becoming very good. The Chrysler Pacifica plug-in minivan is excellent for the price and the BMW X5 plugins are by far the best luxury plugin SUVs that I’ve seen.

You can get good deals on used Pacifica plugins too. Typically in the $20k range.

But we still need a good EV option that is close to $20k brand new.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#52

Post by intrasight »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #8
stalfosknight wrote: post #7

I would like an EV but not if it means I'm forced into an SUV, crossover, or some other huge land whale.

The Nissan Leaf is a nice size for an around town EV. I currently have a twenty year old truck that I need for a side hustle, along with normal household and yard work, but I really hate using it for all those short trips to the grocery store, the library, and anything else nearby that doesn't involve moving around a large, heavy, or messy objects. The economics of having a Leaf as a second vehicle just doesn't work…

This is where I'm stuck also. I'll probably get a e-scooter as my second vehicle.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#53

Post by charcircuit »

femto wrote: post #45

Why don't electric cars use replaceable battery modules with a standard form factor? Advantages would include: 1) It allows the battery to be easily replaced as the car gets older. 2) With a suitable generic form factor, it would allow batteries to be upgraded as technology changes. 3) It would allow people to only populate enough battery slots for their daily needs. Communing to work: you only need to insert a few b…

I am not sure there are many people who want to swap out batteries when they weigh over 1000 pounds. Inserting a battery would require something to help carry and insert it which makes it have enormous user friction which makes it a non starter for most people. Not many people even want to swap out phone batteries despite those batteries being easy to carry.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#54

Post by sokoloff »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #8
stalfosknight wrote: post #7

I would like an EV but not if it means I'm forced into an SUV, crossover, or some other huge land whale.

The Nissan Leaf is a nice size for an around town EV. I currently have a twenty year old truck that I need for a side hustle, along with normal household and yard work, but I really hate using it for all those short trips to the grocery store, the library, and anything else nearby that doesn't involve moving around a large, heavy, or messy objects. The economics of having a Leaf as a second vehicle just doesn't work…

We've got a 2005 CR-V and a 2015 Nissan LEAF for our 4 person family and it's pretty ideal. There are enough days where we both need a car (often because kid #1 is doing X at Y and kid #2 is doing M at N and we need both cars to get both Y and N).

The LEAF gets the bulk of the random nearby errands and still has ~70 miles of range (62-65 in winter). Our total insurance is $1220/yr for two cars, two drivers, and substantially higher than standard coverage limits. In 9 years and 25K miles, the LEAF has needed wipers twice, washer fluid, one tire plug, and is about to need 2 tires. That's ideal for the guy who turns all the wrenches on the family car. (The Honda is low maintenance, but the LEAF is nearly zero.)

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#55

Post by bluGill »

femto wrote: post #45

Why don't electric cars use replaceable battery modules with a standard form factor? Advantages would include: 1) It allows the battery to be easily replaced as the car gets older. 2) With a suitable generic form factor, it would allow batteries to be upgraded as technology changes. 3) It would allow people to only populate enough battery slots for their daily needs. Communing to work: you only need to insert a few b…

They probably use stanard cells. However modules don't make sense as they need to pack cells where they fit and that goal sit in conflict with a standard module.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#56

Post by brightball »

robotresearcher wrote: post #47
brightball wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a used Model 3 for a little under 40k with a payment of about $500 / month. I was previously spending $500 / month in gas. The vehicle is literally paying for itself based on my usage. Now, if you’re driving less the math may not work out but the cost of fuel alone has to factor into those annual maintenance costs.

How are you charging it for free? At the office? My car insurance is very much higher for a Model 3 than a similarly priced car because repairs are more expensive. This should be added to the TCO. I like the Model 3 still, because it’s a fun car to drive. It’s not cheap though.

Charge at the house. I haven’t done the math recently but when I had a Chevy Volt the electricity cost was equivalent to about $0.64 / gallon of gas.

It is fun to drive though.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#57

Post by TIPSIO »

TexanFeller wrote: post #15

I want an EV to be more reliable and save me more money in the long run. EVs start out ~10k more than the Corolla most people should buying. They then compromise the long term reliability and maintenance cost with high tech gee whiz features. I’d sooner have manual roll up windows than touch screen controlled air vents. When you integrate sensors and software controls into every little thing, we know those things wil…

I kind of agree actually on your cost points. It’s still a luxury purchase. I am a bit more conservative of a saver but feel priced out and sadly went ICE.

If you qualify for the EV tax credit, I would argue the car is too expensive for your budget.

If you don’t qualify barely, a brand new ICE vehicle is going to last years and be cheaper. Is it really worth it to push budget?

If you way don’t qualify, definitely buying an EV. Also congrats on your income.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#58

Post by rappatic »

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded:

> Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea persists even though in 2023 the average US driver traveled only about 40 miles a day, and in 2022 about 93% of US trips were less than 30 miles. Still, in a survey conducted by Ipsos last fall, 73% of respondents indicated they had concerns about EV range.

93% of trips are less than 30 miles, but the vast majority of drivers take occasional trips that are beyond the range of an electric car. It's no wonder that 73% of drivers have range concerns-- no one is concerned with the EV getting through their commute, they're concerned with the EV getting them to their distant family / weekend trip / vacation home / etc. The argument is a clear strawman; it's playing down what people have genuine concerns with and focusing on the range aspect that's obviously unimportant.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#59

Post by hindsightbias »

“AUSTIN, Texas, January 2, 2024 – In the fourth quarter, we produced approximately 495,000 vehicles and delivered over 484,000 vehicles. In 2023, vehicle deliveries grew 38% YoY to 1.81 million while production grew 35% YoY to 1.85 million.”

— Tesla Vehicle Production & Deliveries and Date for Financial Results & Webcast for Fourth Quarter 2023

Few people are buying non-Tesla EVs but more EVs sold last quarter than ever.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#60

Post by jjtheblunt »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #35
TacticalCoder wrote: post #10

> If there's any direct inspiration for the United States' EV policy, it's Norway. As the story goes, Norway introduced some compelling subsidies for EVs Ah yup... Norway, sitting on gigantic oil reserves. Reserves so huge they could decide to just give the finger to the EU and not join. So huge there's a fund benefiting, AFAIK, all Norway citizens. I'm not criticizing Norway. But citing Norway as some kind of EV pos…

> The damages are proportional to the root of the weight No, road damage is proportional to the 4th power of axle weight. So a car that's 50% heavier will do 5x the damage to the road. (Assuming the same number of axles.)

How does one get a four in an exponent here? Is there a link to the math?

Edit : cool link below, but includes the disclaimer

“The accuracy of the law of the fourth power is disputed among experts, since the test results depend on many other factors, such as climatic conditions, in addition to the factors mentioned above.”

Post reply on HN