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After 34 years, someone beat Tetris [video]

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Re: After 34 years, someone beat Tetris [video]

#51

Post by 7373737373 »

kirjavascript wrote: post #36
7373737373 wrote: post #20

Now the question is: can the RAM code execution lead to interesting game states/exploits like the Pokémon Yellow Total Control Hack? https://youtube.com/watch?v=p5T81yHkHtI

It can and we have achieved Arbitrary Code Execution in NES Tetris. The setup is horrifyingly complicated and precise though, involving getting some near-impossible scores and entering specific names in the highscore list, then reaching the crash on the same frame that the internal values for random number generation happen to represent a jump instruction to said highscore list (and we get lucky and various registers…

Holy shit, and massive kudos!

Re: After 34 years, someone beat Tetris [video]

#52

Post by JohnBooty »

johnisgood wrote: post #44
JohnBooty wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In order to get the "kill screen" on Tetris (or Pac-Man, etc) you need to play at an absolute master's level for an extended period of time Also the Tetris player here (edit: arguably) isn't "exploiting" a bug. The game just literally hits a limitation that can only be hit via extended and nearly superhuman play

What if this "kill screen" were to happen at, say, level 30 due to bad code? Would it still be considered "beating the game"?

Well, it's definitely a judgement call.

I think most "serious" Tetris players can get to 30 easily in a short amount of time, right? Like 15-20 minutes? It'd be hard to think of that as a legitimate "ending."

Whereas a run to level 100+ or whatever for this kill screen is a major achievement. Took people 30+ years to get there.

I don't know, though. It's all subjective. If you want to think of a hypothetical lvl 30 crash as a "kill screen" or "ending" then hey... go for it.

Re: After 34 years, someone beat Tetris [video]

#53

Post by sumeno »

tenebrisalietum wrote: post #23
johnisgood wrote: post #13

I get why this is exciting and all that, but how is bad code (or insufficient resources) leading to the bug or crash equivalent to "player beating the game"?

It's an achieveable ending--one not planned by the coders, but one nonetheless. You cannot play past that point. A couple of old arcade games have "kill screens", such as Pacman and Donkey Kong.

Because of the specifics of how this is done you actually can play past this point, but you have to intentionally dodge the crash and the conditions for the crash can be different per level.

It is technically possible to go up through level 255 at which point it loops back to 0. It's been done through a tool assisted run (carefully doing inputs frame by frame rather than playing in real time)

Re: After 34 years, someone beat Tetris [video]

#55

Post by fractal161 »

kirjavascript wrote: post #36
7373737373 wrote: post #20

Now the question is: can the RAM code execution lead to interesting game states/exploits like the Pokémon Yellow Total Control Hack? https://youtube.com/watch?v=p5T81yHkHtI

It can and we have achieved Arbitrary Code Execution in NES Tetris. The setup is horrifyingly complicated and precise though, involving getting some near-impossible scores and entering specific names in the highscore list, then reaching the crash on the same frame that the internal values for random number generation happen to represent a jump instruction to said highscore list (and we get lucky and various registers…

However, I'm like 90% sure that this can be made easier using p3/p4 controllers through the famicom expansion port. In particular, Hydrantdude and I found a consistent enough setup using the single at 1489 lines (pushdown gives you a 50% chance, and I think).

This setup would even allow crude human-possible ACE. Right now we're limited to small payloads (I made a proof of concept that activates the unused two player mode), but more sophisticated setups might give us more power.

Re: After 34 years, someone beat Tetris [video]

#56

Post by refulgentis »

xerox13ster wrote: post #38
helix278 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is hypertapping and tapping?

These are shown and explained in the video. tapping/hypertapping: what you do to your mouse trying to get your click speed above 10 CPS rolling: the same but tapping each finger on the bottom of the controller while pressing the buttons to feather tap the switch state extremely fast. like fiddling a mechanical keyboard key over the actuation point. The equivalent of putting sharpied electrical tape on your mouse and…

Gently teasing :) - I definitely got _more_ confused, these are interesting examples.

> what you do to your mouse trying to get your click speed above 10 CPS.

?!

> The equivalent of putting sharpied electrical tape on your mouse and rubbing it.

?!?

Re: After 34 years, someone beat Tetris [video]

#57

Post by refulgentis »

TheRoque wrote: post #32
johnisgood wrote: post #13

I get why this is exciting and all that, but how is bad code (or insufficient resources) leading to the bug or crash equivalent to "player beating the game"?

Some old games are infinite, and don't have a proper end, then can roll infinitely. So as a result, you can play as long as you wish, until you reach the hardware limits, which is called the kill screen, and might be the closest thing to "finishing" a game when it's infinite.

I don't understand, what hardware limit?

Re: After 34 years, someone beat Tetris [video]

#60

Post by TheRoque »

refulgentis wrote: post #57
TheRoque wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some old games are infinite, and don't have a proper end, then can roll infinitely. So as a result, you can play as long as you wish, until you reach the hardware limits, which is called the kill screen, and might be the closest thing to "finishing" a game when it's infinite.

I don't understand, what hardware limit?

Memory. Past a certain point, the numbers can become so high (score, level or other) that it corrupts the memory and freezes the game
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