$450 for a School Bag? • Hacker News Board

Re: $450 for a School Bag?

#51

Post by GuB-42 » Tue, Jan 02, 2024, 4:29 AM UTC

ethbr1 wrote: post #18

irjustin wrote: post #5

I _love_ Japanese dedication to craft; really any hyper-focused efforts, but i digress. The problem that I have with this of course is families who cannot afford these really well made pieces of gear (touched on at the end of the article) and where children who can't afford it are ostracized because of it. Growing up I was on meal plans due to our financial status and paying in physical tickets, made me and the other…

In retrospect, the most ridiculous thing about kids giving each other shit about money is... they're kids. Until they get to ~14+, they don't have any claim to having earned any of their family's wealth.

It is not about money, it is about fitting in. Kids don't care how expensive the thing is, it just has to be a certain way.

Of course, those who sell the things kids use have every incentive to make it cool to spend a lot of money. It is, btw, among the worst kind of advertising. They target kids, who can be easily manipulated, so that they, in turn, convince their parents. It is sometimes close to a hostage situation, where if parents don't get the expensive thing, their kid gets bullied.

Some people want to bring back (affordable!) school uniforms for that reason.

Re: $450 for a School Bag?

#52

Post by new299 » Tue, Jan 02, 2024, 4:29 AM UTC

guessmyname wrote: post #25

metadat wrote: post #2

The article tries to articulate the value add through attention to detail in manufacturing "so the bags survive 6 years of rough and tumble ", but I'm not really getting it. What am I missing? I had a $60-in-1995 northface backpack that lasted through hauling 5+ periods of textbooks every day, walking and biking to middle school and highschool. It worked fine, in fact my dad still uses it (30 years later) to hold and…

Curious coincidence, I bought a randoseru (ランドセル) [1][2][3] early this morning and complained to my wife all the way to the store. She doesn’t want our children to look different at school. They are already different enough for being hāfu [4] and she doesn’t want to traumatize them even more. The bags are stiff and, in my eyes, quite ugly, and children are supposed to carry several books every day, good exercise but…

They also break... ours lasted 2 years and then one of the rivets popped out.

Generally I believe you are allowed to use a different bag, it's just... uncommon.

Re: $450 for a School Bag?

#53

Post by option » Tue, Jan 02, 2024, 4:29 AM UTC

metadat wrote: post #2

The article tries to articulate the value add through attention to detail in manufacturing "so the bags survive 6 years of rough and tumble ", but I'm not really getting it. What am I missing? I had a $60-in-1995 northface backpack that lasted through hauling 5+ periods of textbooks every day, walking and biking to middle school and highschool. It worked fine, in fact my dad still uses it (30 years later) to hold and…

"most of the content and schoolwork takes place on a lightweight Chromebook that stays in the classroom"

- a disastrous mistake.

Re: $450 for a School Bag?

#54

Post by JohnBooty » Tue, Jan 02, 2024, 4:30 AM UTC

paxys wrote: post #40

JohnBooty wrote: post #34

I'd love to know the relative environmental impact of buying: 1. A single high-quality $400 leather randoseru to last six years 2. A single high-quality $200-$400 ripstop nylon bag with high quality zippers, etc (essentially, GoRuck quality level) to last for life 3. Six years' worth of $50 Jansports that last maybe ~3 years each 4. Six years' worth of cheapass $15 Amazon Essentials level nylon bags that last ~1 year…

This isn't really the math. A $50 backpack from a decent brand will easily last 5-10 years under normal use. You aren't getting anything extra in terms of durability from the $400+ worth of exotic materials and handcrafting. It's a signal of social status, like any other piece of luxury fashion, but not much more than that.

What's "normal use"? Here was my "normal use" as a student in the 1980s and 1990s.

    - 4 or 5 large books at once, bag often fairly bulging
    - Zipped and unzipped probably > 20x daily
    - Dropped onto school, home, and schoolbus floors dozens of 
      times daily with various levels of care
    - Some walking, some weather exposure (less for me than 
      many others)
    - One strap always carrying 100% of the load because the style
      was to wear it over one shoulder; it was never acceptable
      to wear it with a strap over each shoulder as actually 
      designed

Anecdotally I didn't see a lot of $50 Jansports lasting multiple years under those conditions and even if they did they would be pretty grungy.

Now... today as a middle-aged adult? Yes, a $50 Jansport easily lasts me 10+ years, probably more like 30, basically a lifetime purchase.

Also... today as a student? I guess it's less physical books and more Chromebooks so sure yeah maybe $50 Jansports can be lifetime purchases for kids, why the hell not

Re: $450 for a School Bag?

#55

Post by dimmke » Tue, Jan 02, 2024, 4:31 AM UTC

dmamills wrote: post #10

metadat wrote: post #2

The article tries to articulate the value add through attention to detail in manufacturing "so the bags survive 6 years of rough and tumble ", but I'm not really getting it. What am I missing? I had a $60-in-1995 northface backpack that lasted through hauling 5+ periods of textbooks every day, walking and biking to middle school and highschool. It worked fine, in fact my dad still uses it (30 years later) to hold and…

> What am I missing? Likely a disrespect for a living wage for a common craftsman, and a misunderstanding of what quality goods actually are. Certainly a lot of kids here survived on cheap $25 jansports, but did the people making them?

Man I'm kind of a bag snob but even pricier brands that differentiate on quality and worker wages are not $400.

I got a Tom Bihn Synapse backpack for around $200 in 2017 that I've traveled to many countries with and has been through I think way more than a kid going to elementary school. It's still going strong today.

It was made in a US factory with workers being paid good wages. $400 is a luxury/captive audience/conspicuous consumption price point.

Re: $450 for a School Bag?

#56

Post by kizunajp » Tue, Jan 02, 2024, 4:31 AM UTC

elijahbenizzy wrote: post #26

Interesting points about the nuances of a $450 bag that’s rather impractical when it’s more a story than a justification. I’m just here to comment that this was a lovely read, thanks for posting!

Author of the newsletter here. Your comment just made my day :)

Re: $450 for a School Bag?

#57

Post by selcuka » Tue, Jan 02, 2024, 4:32 AM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #29

paxys wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The moment you add an aspect of culture and social pressure all economics goes out of the window. The bags cost $450 because it is the expectation that grandparents will buy an expensive school bag for their grandkids, that's it. Everything else ("it's handcrafted!", "it has 200 parts!", "it's durable") is reverse justification from there. It's the same as trying to figure out why a tiny piece of abundant rock costs…

> Everything else ("it's handcrafted!", "it's durable!") is a reverse justification from there. Thanks for this, exactly. It's the same thing with designer bags. After the rise of "superfake" luxury bags that cost literally a tenth of the real thing, I remember reading some blogs trying to argue why people should buy authentic, basing it on BS "handcrafted quality!" reasons (the reason they were called "superfakes" i…

> Sure, some of the reasons were actually true (it does cost a lot more to pay workers in France compared to China)

Even that, is not a problem that the consumer has to solve if the superfakes can attain the same quality using cheaper labour. In that case supporting local jobs could be a justification, not quality (again, assuming that the quality is the same).

Re: $450 for a School Bag?

#58

Post by kstrauser » Tue, Jan 02, 2024, 4:32 AM UTC

kizunajp wrote: post #48

Hello! Author here. Pleasantly surprised to see this on the front page! I thought I'd address a couple of questions here: - Why is it so expensive? You can definitely buy cheaper randoserus made in China and these are giving lower-end Japanese manufacturers a run for their money. For example, https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/dp/B09H5RLGQF is around 45 dollars. Even off-the-shelf Japanese randoserus are cheaper than the…

Thanks for a fascinating look into a subject I never would have heard of otherwise.

Re: $450 for a School Bag?

#59

Post by toomuchtodo » Tue, Jan 02, 2024, 4:34 AM UTC

new299 wrote: post #52

guessmyname wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious coincidence, I bought a randoseru (ランドセル) [1][2][3] early this morning and complained to my wife all the way to the store. She doesn’t want our children to look different at school. They are already different enough for being hāfu [4] and she doesn’t want to traumatize them even more. The bags are stiff and, in my eyes, quite ugly, and children are supposed to carry several books every day, good exercise but…

They also break... ours lasted 2 years and then one of the rivets popped out. Generally I believe you are allowed to use a different bag, it's just... uncommon.

Is this a market opportunity? To make cheaper yet more durable variants?

Re: $450 for a School Bag?

#60

Post by eru » Tue, Jan 02, 2024, 4:34 AM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #29

paxys wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The moment you add an aspect of culture and social pressure all economics goes out of the window. The bags cost $450 because it is the expectation that grandparents will buy an expensive school bag for their grandkids, that's it. Everything else ("it's handcrafted!", "it has 200 parts!", "it's durable") is reverse justification from there. It's the same as trying to figure out why a tiny piece of abundant rock costs…

> Everything else ("it's handcrafted!", "it's durable!") is a reverse justification from there. Thanks for this, exactly. It's the same thing with designer bags. After the rise of "superfake" luxury bags that cost literally a tenth of the real thing, I remember reading some blogs trying to argue why people should buy authentic, basing it on BS "handcrafted quality!" reasons (the reason they were called "superfakes" i…

> Sure, some of the reasons were actually true (it does cost a lot more to pay workers in France compared to China), [...]

Though that's mostly a rational for why the 'real' bag does costs more, not a rationale for why you should prefer it. 'Is' vs 'ought' distinction.