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Poor Man's Web

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Re: Poor Man's Web

#51

Post by ravenstine »

basscomm wrote: post #37
surprisetalk wrote: post #18

I recently documented some similar thoughts on the “cheap” web: [1] https://potato.cheap IMO, protocol is largely a distraction from the good stuff. The question I’ve been wondering lately is, “why don’t most people I meet have personal websites?”

I can think of three reasons that more people don't have personal websites: 1. For non technical users (and there are lots of them) learning enough HTML and figuring out how to put it somewhere accessible is too high of a bar to overcome (forget about updating it ever). It's quicker and easier to just establish a presence on some social media site. 2. For technical users who are capable of setting up a website, it's…

> 3. It's anecdotal, but I rarely see anyone browsing the web these days.

Exactly. People on HN overestimate today's use of the web. Regular people barely know what a website is at this point or have any idea what a browser is or does. They only know it as a place to ask The Google something, but even that has changed with The Google's app/widget and voice activated assistants. Sure those things open up web views, but that view may not even have a URL bar, so as far as the user knows, they're in "the app", which is kind of true I guess. That "Chrome" or "Safari" app is just kind of a funny thing that opens up sometimes. Most users aren't opening up the browser and typing in URLs. A fraction of them are, but that fraction is diminishing, and I would guess that fraction mostly reflects desktop users. All this is to say that, if you want to create a blog today and not spend effort to heavily promote it and use SEO tricks (that will immediately go out of date), you can basically forget it if you want anyone to read it.

Re: Poor Man's Web

#52

Post by classichasclass »

II2II wrote: post #12
troupo wrote: post #3

People keep trying to make Gemini happen. I will keep repeating that in its quest for simplicity Gemini threw the baby out of with the water. Basic styling and inline images are invaluable.

The problem with most of these discussions is they assume Gemini is a substitute for the web, when it is actually a substitute for Gopher. Gopher never really went away. A few enthusiasts were keeping it alive. Those enthusiasts realized that Gopher had a number of shortcomings, so Gemini was created to address those shortcomings. It was not created to address the shortcomings of the web. (At least not directly. Indi…

I think this is true only up to a point. The sets of Gopher enthusiasts and Gemini enthusiasts surely overlap, but they are not coterminous (disclosure: I administer gopher.floodgap.com).

From my view in Gopherspace, Gemini is a better fit for the Gopher+TLS thing people keep trying to do which is both incompatible and doesn't square with Gopher being an ultra-light protocol, and thus most appealing to those people who thought Gopher would be the "new smol web" but found it's more its own thing. In particular, Gopher's signature strong menu-document hierarchy that a lot of us Gopher nerds like doesn't have any true parallel in Gemini.

I started gopher.floodgap.com back when it was gopher.ptloma.edu in the late 1990s largely as a historical preservation because I remembered all the cool stuff you could get there. Back then the Web hadn't metastasized to the Tetsuo blob it is today, so that obviously wouldn't have been the reason. I can't speak for the later adopters, but Gemini doesn't scratch my Gopher itches fully (see also https://oldvcr.blogspot.com/2020/11/a-gopher-view-of-gemini.... , my notes on this from 2020).

Re: Poor Man's Web

#53

Post by ArekDymalski »

surprisetalk wrote: post #18

I recently documented some similar thoughts on the “cheap” web: [1] https://potato.cheap IMO, protocol is largely a distraction from the good stuff. The question I’ve been wondering lately is, “why don’t most people I meet have personal websites?”

> “why don’t most people I meet have personal websites?"

I think that valuable follow-up question would be "Should they have one?"

Re: Poor Man's Web

#54

Post by benrutter »

surprisetalk wrote: post #18

I recently documented some similar thoughts on the “cheap” web: [1] https://potato.cheap IMO, protocol is largely a distraction from the good stuff. The question I’ve been wondering lately is, “why don’t most people I meet have personal websites?”

I absolutely loved reading potato.cheap- nice work!

I think there's currently a discoverability problem. I love small websites, blogs, passion projects etc and they give me 1000x more joy than social media posts. But I still don't really know a good way to discover them.

Hacker news is honestly probably the way that I find most small web stuff, I like kagi's "small internet" filter a lot too. But as a whole, the likes of google etc are really geared up towards funneling me into looking at posts in social media sites rather than anything else.

Re: Poor Man's Web

#55

Post by threatofrain »

surprisetalk wrote: post #18

I recently documented some similar thoughts on the “cheap” web: [1] https://potato.cheap IMO, protocol is largely a distraction from the good stuff. The question I’ve been wondering lately is, “why don’t most people I meet have personal websites?”

It's possible that a social media profile is the new website. Rather than stand alone as a single page, it's often connected to other people and orgs that you may want to be affiliated with, so it comes with its own relevant blogroll.

Re: Poor Man's Web

#57

Post by wharvle »

surprisetalk wrote: post #18

I recently documented some similar thoughts on the “cheap” web: [1] https://potato.cheap IMO, protocol is largely a distraction from the good stuff. The question I’ve been wondering lately is, “why don’t most people I meet have personal websites?”

Any social media or messenger program:

1) search name

2) install app

3) open app

4) tap through sign-up. Maybe type your name or other familiar details.

5) Nothing to do here because it already imported all your contacts, if relevant.

6) Post/message. You did this all from your phone. It was free. Everyone you care about automatically knows you’re there and how to reach you in the app. Tap camera icon to post pictures or video.

If you have trouble with any of it, ask literally anyone for help.

Personal website:

1) ???????

Re: Poor Man's Web

#58

Post by eep_social »

giantrobot wrote: post #19
chwilson wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Up to the client really, I know that Lagrange[1] supports this. [1] https://github.com/skyjake/lagrange

Maybe Gemini could use some lightweight markup language. Shit it could be a form of hypertext. Maybe it could be called something like "hypertext markup language". Then clients could still decide how to render the page but there could be clear links between documents and sites. Nah, that probably will never work.

Sounds like markdown, where do I sign!

Re: Poor Man's Web

#60

Post by troupo »

surprisetalk wrote: post #18

I recently documented some similar thoughts on the “cheap” web: [1] https://potato.cheap IMO, protocol is largely a distraction from the good stuff. The question I’ve been wondering lately is, “why don’t most people I meet have personal websites?”

> The question I’ve been wondering lately is, “why don’t most people I meet have personal websites?”

Because it's still nearly impossible for a non-tech person to create one. Facebook/Tiktok/Instagram offer a lot of what people would want from a personal website for free and give you connections to your friends/family/strangers

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