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US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

theguardian.com

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Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#51

Post by ZeroGravitas »

simonsarris wrote: post #25
bob1029 wrote: post #3

I just moved from a home with induction range to one with gas range and I feel like I am on crazy pills waiting for anything to happen now. I get that things like extreme control and wok cooking are a bit difficult on induction, but at least it's ~possible. A consumer gas range simply doesnt put enough effective power into the cookware. This isnt only about boiling water quickly. This is about getting a pan hot enoug…

> A consumer gas range simply doesnt put enough effective power into the cookware. I like both gas and induction but are you really comparing the equivalent equipment in your anecdote? The cheapest induction range on us-appliance.com (FCFI3083AS) is $1000, and has a 3600w "boost" burner, or ~12K BTUs A $1000 gas range from the same company (Frigidaire, FCRG3062AB) has an 18K BTU burner. That's significantly more powe…

Randomly googled efficiency:

> when cooking with gas, about 60 percent of the energy is wasted, compared to just 16 percent with induction

Which translates to induction winning 10.08 vs 7.2 useful BTUs

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#52

Post by [deleted] »

simonsarris wrote: post #25
bob1029 wrote: post #3

I just moved from a home with induction range to one with gas range and I feel like I am on crazy pills waiting for anything to happen now. I get that things like extreme control and wok cooking are a bit difficult on induction, but at least it's ~possible. A consumer gas range simply doesnt put enough effective power into the cookware. This isnt only about boiling water quickly. This is about getting a pan hot enoug…

> A consumer gas range simply doesnt put enough effective power into the cookware. I like both gas and induction but are you really comparing the equivalent equipment in your anecdote? The cheapest induction range on us-appliance.com (FCFI3083AS) is $1000, and has a 3600w "boost" burner, or ~12K BTUs A $1000 gas range from the same company (Frigidaire, FCRG3062AB) has an 18K BTU burner. That's significantly more powe…

[deleted]

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#53

Post by travisb »

buggeryorkshire wrote: post #27
Schiendelman wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you may not have used induction.

Yeah, when I replaced my crap electric hob with induction I literally sent a video to my mum boiling a pan of water to show how crazy fast it was. I'm in the UK though, maybe it's something to do with having 230v supply?

No, in North America all electric hobs are 240v often 30 amp (sometime higher).

With cooking it's all about efficiency of heat transfer, latency of power change, and flexibility of pan lifting between the three types of hobs (electric resistive, induction, gas).

The efficiency of electric resistive and gas is poor, induction is great.

The latency of power change of electric resistive is poor, induction and gas are great.

Flexibility of pan lifting of electric resistive and induction are poor (lift more than a couple of centimetres and you have no heat), gas is good.

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#54

Post by dfxm12 »

vsskanth wrote: post #2

This is surprising because gas cooking is considered a "premium" feature here in NC, and people look for it during their house search. Personally, it is a better cooking experience than electric. Induction might be the best, but it's still expensive.

As the article says, gas cooking is poor for our health & the environment. Utility firms have to fight against buyers who are getting more educated about this, along with stricter codes also informed by this knowledge. At some level, you have to decide where you want to be on the axis between your cooking experience & your child's health (if that's a concern in your situation). If you feel induction is too expensive, you may qualify for assistance, under a state program or under the inflation reduction act.

Other than that, it's become a bit of an ID Pol issue [0], [1], [2], so I can see why considering it "premium" would be a thing in a sorta purple, sorta red state.

0 - https://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-guest-alleges-electric-stove...

1 - https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/5-ways-biden-still-coming-yo...

2 - https://www.axios.com/2023/01/12/gas-stoves-conservative-bac...

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#55

Post by fatbird »

thsksbd wrote: post #33
bwb wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That might be a bit of propaganda from the gas industry over the last 50 years. I heard similar but when i dug into it appeared to be bunk… i cook on electric now and love it.

I grew up on electric, and Im looking to switch from my current gas to induction. Mostly for safety reasons - I don't like open flames. So Im about as biased against gas as possible. Electric heating elements suck. They take an appreciable time to warm up, they stay warm long after forcing the cook to adjust accordingly. Also, only gas can really work with woks, but I don't use woks so that's a non issue. If the powe…

We replaced our electric with induction instead of gas, which my wife much prefers to cook on. One of my best arguments against gas was that every gas stovetop available has a heavy iron framework over the flame to hold pots, and it's a pain to clean under them.

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#56

Post by infecto »

jeffbee wrote: post #14
abfan1127 wrote: post #7

I won't speak to cooking. But, gas central air heaters are much cheaper to operate than heat pumps in Phoenix, AZ. I wish it wasn't so environmentally speaking. But from a cost point of view, its better to use natural gas than electricity.

That's just a policy choice. There's no law of physics that makes an electric heat pump cost more.

How is that policy choice?

Are be subsidizing the natural gas suppliers or adding fees to natty generation plants?

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#57

Post by Beached »

bob1029 wrote: post #3

I just moved from a home with induction range to one with gas range and I feel like I am on crazy pills waiting for anything to happen now. I get that things like extreme control and wok cooking are a bit difficult on induction, but at least it's ~possible. A consumer gas range simply doesnt put enough effective power into the cookware. This isnt only about boiling water quickly. This is about getting a pan hot enoug…

my has stove gets WAAAY hotter then my mother's electric range. both faster to temp and overall heat. mothers stove is 4 years old, mine is 6.

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#58

Post by bob1029 »

simonsarris wrote: post #25
bob1029 wrote: post #3

I just moved from a home with induction range to one with gas range and I feel like I am on crazy pills waiting for anything to happen now. I get that things like extreme control and wok cooking are a bit difficult on induction, but at least it's ~possible. A consumer gas range simply doesnt put enough effective power into the cookware. This isnt only about boiling water quickly. This is about getting a pan hot enoug…

> A consumer gas range simply doesnt put enough effective power into the cookware. I like both gas and induction but are you really comparing the equivalent equipment in your anecdote? The cheapest induction range on us-appliance.com (FCFI3083AS) is $1000, and has a 3600w "boost" burner, or ~12K BTUs A $1000 gas range from the same company (Frigidaire, FCRG3062AB) has an 18K BTU burner. That's significantly more powe…

I am coming from this model:

https://www.jennairappliances.com/appliances/cooktops/induct...

To this model:

https://www.frigidaire.com/en/p/kitchen/ranges/gas-ranges/FC...

Definitely not comparable on cost basis.

All of that said, I can use the same techniques stepping down from a 5kW to a 1.8kW unit. Once you get above ~2500 watts on induction it doesn't feel like it's moving the needle that much. I rarely used the 5kw boost mode. It was actually too powerful in most cases, even stir fry if you weren't moving like a mad man.

Moving from gas or resistive to electromagnetic seems like the actual magic trick.

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#59

Post by wharvle »

ska wrote: post #44
bsder wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On old school electric. Induction is way better for control and latency than gas. The only issue is if you need to genuinely ignite something (like in wok cooking--but, then, get a blowtorch--if it's good enough for J. Kenji Lopez-Alt it's good enough for you). One real problem is that the standalone induction burners are only 110V in the US and that hamstrings them dramatically. Induction cooktops, however, do not s…

Agree induction is pretty great, although it limits cookware and still doesn't work for all techniques (blowtorch doesn't replace everything). And you are right that the 110V are underpowered. The ones I've used are less granular than gas (which is essentially continuous) and latency is similar. From what I've seen europe is still way ahead on induction offerings, but it seems to be getting better. I'd probably lean…

Induction’s still pricey, too. The low end of gas ranges is low-priced, indeed. And ranges (can) last a long time, so old-school electric is gonna be the “normal” electric range for many years yet, I expect.

Just checked Lowes. Cheapest induction range, $999. Four gas options are $499 or lower, four resistive electrics $499 or lower.

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#60

Post by PCI-eX16 »

hasty_pudding wrote: post #4
vsskanth wrote: post #2

This is surprising because gas cooking is considered a "premium" feature here in NC, and people look for it during their house search. Personally, it is a better cooking experience than electric. Induction might be the best, but it's still expensive.

I would literally buy propane camping stove and a big bottle of propane rather than use an electrical stove.

Why is that?
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