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Average distance to a supermarket in Amsterdam is 400 meter or 1300 feet

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Re: Average distance to a supermarket in Amsterdam is 400 meter or 1300 feet

#51

Post by mpol »

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #2

in india, that is your local grocery store. every street has them. of all kinds, stocking different things, sometimes similar things. these give employment to a huge number of people who are simple passive shopkeepers, they do not do any advertising, do not have to raise loans (though some do) or "invest" in anything exotic. just their stock in hand. since the "concentration" of power is distributed, everyone owns th…

In the Netherlands this still exists, but mostly in the form of shops "from foreign people". So you have some Turkish stores, a Bengal store, a Polish store, an Afro-Carribean store. They are often run by one person or a family. The customers know where to find these stores without advertising.

Recently, in my town at least, there are a few larger Turkish supermarkets. I don't see the smaller shops take a hit yet, not sure if things will change.

Re: Average distance to a supermarket in Amsterdam is 400 meter or 1300 feet

#52

Post by throw_pm23 »

anovikov wrote: post #3
2Gkashmiri wrote: post #2

in india, that is your local grocery store. every street has them. of all kinds, stocking different things, sometimes similar things. these give employment to a huge number of people who are simple passive shopkeepers, they do not do any advertising, do not have to raise loans (though some do) or "invest" in anything exotic. just their stock in hand. since the "concentration" of power is distributed, everyone owns th…

This model also means using of lots and lots of labor because sales volume of those shops is very small and it keeps entire family occupied. It means those people are unavailable for other productive activities. The world is entering labor shortage zone that will last for as long as we don't figure how to fix reproduction without abandoning human rights (which isn't an option anyway because there are many countries a…

Funny how it is claimed simultaneously that we enter labor shortage zone and there not being any meaningful jobs for people to do.

Re: Average distance to a supermarket in Amsterdam is 400 meter or 1300 feet

#53

Post by mavamaarten »

noduerme wrote: post #26

After spending a few weeks back in Europe (after 8 years in the US), it quickly came back to me how much easier it is to live a healthy daily pattern of life there than it is here. In particular: Shopping for food in the US is almost always a separate trip in a car or a bus or on foot. Whereas in Spain it's common to go meet friends, pick up some bread and veg from the store, meet more friends and pick up things from…

Indeed! I was in SF for a few months. Finding affordable food was insanely hard. Fast food was both really cheap and everywhere. Fresh produce and basics like bread were expensive or hard to find, a long bus / tube drive away. Of course it's much easier to fall into that trap of shitty and cheap food.

Where I live the balance is much easier. Vegetables, fruit, meat, ... it's all relatively cheap and easy to get, there's supermarkets and bakeries everywhere. Fast food is relatively expensive, so you get something to think about: (expensive+unhealthy but easy) || (cheap+healthy but you need to cook)

Re: Average distance to a supermarket in Amsterdam is 400 meter or 1300 feet

#54

Post by DrBazza »

noduerme wrote: post #26

After spending a few weeks back in Europe (after 8 years in the US), it quickly came back to me how much easier it is to live a healthy daily pattern of life there than it is here. In particular: Shopping for food in the US is almost always a separate trip in a car or a bus or on foot. Whereas in Spain it's common to go meet friends, pick up some bread and veg from the store, meet more friends and pick up things from…

In the UK, the supermarkets, the Internet, and modern 'town planning' have largely caused the demise of the UK high street.

In the 70s towns were smaller, fewer people had cars, and there were hardly any supermarkets, so people walked into the town centres and did their grocery shopping there.

Then in 80s we started getting the first out-of-town supermarkets with free parking. You have always had to pay for parking in UK town centres since I can remember.

And the UK government relaxed Sunday trading laws. Many family owned stores stayed closed on a Sunday - having 1 day a week off.

Then supermarkets started offering more 'range', to the point now where many UK supermarkets are like mini-shopping malls. Clothes, music, opticians, locksmiths, pharmacy, and so on. And they started closing their town centre supermarkets and moving everything to the new out-of-town ones.

At the same time UK planning laws now favour developers building 1-2000 homes with a couple of small shops, no High St. or Main St., and as many houses as possible built on all the remaining space for profit. These developments are unsurprisingly nowhere near town centres, so people need to drive. And they don't want to go into a town centre where there's no supermarket, and you have to pay to park. I don't really understand what we're trying to build over here.

Towns that have prevented mainstream chains (Sainsbury, Tesco, Starbuck, MacDonalds) from setting up, have faired far better. Butchers, bakers and greengrocers, small convenience stores (mom+pop groceries) all still exist in those towns, unlike those towns with nearby supermarkets.

So in part, we're not as bad as the US, but we love our cars, and just blindly go to supermarkets now.

Re: Average distance to a supermarket in Amsterdam is 400 meter or 1300 feet

#55

Post by ignormies »

a_c wrote: post #46
noduerme wrote: post #26

After spending a few weeks back in Europe (after 8 years in the US), it quickly came back to me how much easier it is to live a healthy daily pattern of life there than it is here. In particular: Shopping for food in the US is almost always a separate trip in a car or a bus or on foot. Whereas in Spain it's common to go meet friends, pick up some bread and veg from the store, meet more friends and pick up things from…

This is also why I think and hope electric vehicle is not the global solution to the too much ICE cars problem, nor is archieving self driving on those cars. A popular solution doesn't make it the best one, it is just the best solution under certain circumstances. Yes I'm talking about tesla.

"The future of the car is self-driving, but the future of transportation is not the car"

Re: Average distance to a supermarket in Amsterdam is 400 meter or 1300 feet

#56

Post by mytailorisrich »

Reason077 wrote: post #50
mytailorisrich wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same in most large cities. Of course this is paid for at the till...

> “It's the same in most large cities. Of course this is paid for at the till...” I think it can actually save you money. I’ve lived in London flats where there were multiple large supermarket brands (Sainsbury’s, Waitrose, ASDA) all within easy walking distance. And smaller corner convenience stores like Tesco Express and Co-op and even Amazon’s one. And also some of the discounters (Iceland, Aldi) only slightly fur…

If you can save by going to Waitrose you know you're in a massively expensive area ;)

Re: Average distance to a supermarket in Amsterdam is 400 meter or 1300 feet

#57

Post by beaeglebeach »

yorwba wrote: post #44
beaeglebeach wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The elevation in price is less location and more whether you're able to buy in bulk. With careful rotation discipline and a handcart it's achievable on foot though, although clearly more convenient with a car and a nice wide lot.

How heavy are your bulk purchases that you need a handcart? And how much do you save compared to just buying a kilogram of everything you ran out of this week?

For dry goods I don't even look at total price, I look at price per weight (wet goods, same but volume). It's almost always lower the more I buy. I'll buy the largest quantity I can consume before it spoils.

Off the cuff I'd say I save about 20%, and buy a few hundred pounds per trip. Probably saves us amongst a family in the vicinity of $1000/yr. This same concept extended to all other non-food consumables.

Re: Average distance to a supermarket in Amsterdam is 400 meter or 1300 feet

#58

Post by kleiba »

noduerme wrote: post #26

After spending a few weeks back in Europe (after 8 years in the US), it quickly came back to me how much easier it is to live a healthy daily pattern of life there than it is here. In particular: Shopping for food in the US is almost always a separate trip in a car or a bus or on foot. Whereas in Spain it's common to go meet friends, pick up some bread and veg from the store, meet more friends and pick up things from…

I suppose you're talking about one certain life style where this kind of pattern fits well. I used to follow this exact description for many years when I was younger and did in fact live right in the center of a small city. It worked great for me. I remember one weekend where I suddenly craved a boiled egg and so just had to walk 5 minutes from my door to a farmer's market to buy a single egg which I carried home holding it in my hand. (The guy selling the eggs gave me a surprised look, but hey, I was single back then, one egg was enough...)

But later in life, with three little children, I just simply couldn't imagine a trip to the grocery store every day. Having moved out to the suburbs, public transport or walking wasn't an option any more, and I was already doing enough driving around what with the kids going to school and all kinds of afternoon activities.

I would have actually loved the more car-centric design of North American cities where at least the driving is made easy. No squeezing through small alleys, tiny parking lots (if any) and 3+ stops to get all the things you need for the week.

The reason the North American car centric design works (too) is that it optimizes for convenience rather than environmental concerns (and it's not like European cities optimized for the latter either, they were simply built in pre-car times). Even if the driving distances are further, that doesn't necessarily mean that the overall shopping trip is much longer in practice. And even in cases where it is, I just find it much less stressful to drive in North America. Of course, your mileage may vary.

When I lived in the city center many years ago, there was one larger grocery store about 5 minutes away from me on foot and a couple of smaller stores specialized in one thing or another in the same area. And while that was very convenient for me, it also meant that there was constant traffic in front of my house from people driving to these stores. There wasn't much zoning rules, apparently, the stores where all just mixed in among the residental houses.

Re: Average distance to a supermarket in Amsterdam is 400 meter or 1300 feet

#59

Post by mytailorisrich »

DrBazza wrote: post #54
noduerme wrote: post #26

After spending a few weeks back in Europe (after 8 years in the US), it quickly came back to me how much easier it is to live a healthy daily pattern of life there than it is here. In particular: Shopping for food in the US is almost always a separate trip in a car or a bus or on foot. Whereas in Spain it's common to go meet friends, pick up some bread and veg from the store, meet more friends and pick up things from…

In the UK, the supermarkets, the Internet, and modern 'town planning' have largely caused the demise of the UK high street. In the 70s towns were smaller, fewer people had cars, and there were hardly any supermarkets, so people walked into the town centres and did their grocery shopping there. Then in 80s we started getting the first out-of-town supermarkets with free parking. You have always had to pay for parking i…

On average this saved people a lot of time and money.

One thing to remember is that most women were stay-at-home mums and were grocery shopping every day. But once you have a car and a fridge (1970s) you can go to the supermarket once a week only, which saves a massive amount of time, especially when you now also have a job.

High streets need to be attractive. Old, dodgy shops are dead, clothing shops have a hard time. That's the way it is and best to go with the flow than trying to put things back "the way they were".

New housing developments are awful, though. The price gap between nice neighbourhoods with "old houses" and those will just keep growing.

Re: Average distance to a supermarket in Amsterdam is 400 meter or 1300 feet

#60

Post by ChatGTP »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #59
DrBazza wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK, the supermarkets, the Internet, and modern 'town planning' have largely caused the demise of the UK high street. In the 70s towns were smaller, fewer people had cars, and there were hardly any supermarkets, so people walked into the town centres and did their grocery shopping there. Then in 80s we started getting the first out-of-town supermarkets with free parking. You have always had to pay for parking i…

On average this saved people a lot of time and money. One thing to remember is that most women were stay-at-home mums and were grocery shopping every day. But once you have a car and a fridge (1970s) you can go to the supermarket once a week only, which saves a massive amount of time, especially when you now also have a job. High streets need to be attractive. Old, dodgy shops are dead, clothing shops have a hard tim…

Looking forward or Amazon deliveries to my lounge, and generative AI TV shows that go forever. Also AI generated events such has the superbowl. Everyday!
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